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[huggz]

I got my chinchillas on 22nd March, they were kept in poor conditions in a pet shop (which had lost its licence to sell animals!)...after seeing the conditions they were in I had a long talk with the owner and he agreed to sell me the cage for £60...legally he couldnt sell the chins but he got around that my selling me the cage with the chins as a "free" bonus.
There were 6 of them crammed in a cage more suitable to 2, no hiding places, no access to sand and to be honest they stank something awful.
When I got them home I transferred them to 2 4ft aquariums (with wire mesh on top to give adequate ventilation and allow heat to escape).  I started learning about them fast via the net...I knew very little, not even how to sex them properly.  When I had learned I found out we had 4 females and 2 males, one who was the kit of one of the females (Owner couldnt say which one!).   I have no idea of the ages of the adults, the owner didnt know!
Anyway thats the background, I weighed them when I got them as I read that it was the best way to see if a female is pregnant and I guessed at least some would be.

Weights
Female 1 - 623g
Female 2 - 574g
Female 3 - 498g
Female 4 - 649g
Male 1    - 420g
Male 2    - 412g (7 months old)

Female 1 gave birth within a few days of arriving.  The kit is doing well and at just over 3 weeks old she is 121g.

I have weighed the adults every week and they have all lost a considerable amount of weight since i got them, despite the fact that they are eating and drinking well.

Weight losses since the first weigh in on 24th March
F 1 - 133g (having given birth)
F 2 - 29g
F 3 - 54g
F 4 - 46g
M 1 - 11g
M 2 - 42g

Some have put back on a little of the weight they lost.  My question is...Is this normal weight loss or should I be worried about it?

The food is being eaten, they get dried fruit, oats and locust bean treats once a day, their poop is formed.  They are active, running and jumping around and I wondered if maybe this was the casue of the loss...in the shop they spent most of their time just huddled together.

Ive rambled on quite a bit!  Sorry!!!   Any help would be appreciated as I want to give my new pets the very best.

Helena

[QTPie61282]

The weight loss seems very excessive.  That I dont believe is normal.  Their previous weights seemed about right, but an adult weighing in at 11grams??  Thats not good.  What do they look like, are they really skinny and bones showing?
I would definitely find an exotic vet who knows about chins and bring them in.

The running around wouldnt cause that much weight loss especially if they are eating and drinking.  I would start supplementing them with Nutrical or anything like that, baby cereal with ground up pellets, goats milk, to see if the weight gets up.

If anyone else has a suggestion on what to supplement for weight gain jump in!  Ive never had to work at increasing the weight of my chins so Ive never had to use any of this.  But I have the Nutrical and my chins love it.

But overall I think they need a veterinarian, ASAP.  And keep the males away from the females.  You dont want them breeding anymore than they already have.  Pet shop chins should never be bred.

[Abby W.]

That got me too.  But I think she meant the second weights to be how much they have lost, which would make female 1 about 490 grams, etc. 

I would still take them to see a vet just to be sure.  Some weight fluctuation is normal.  The rule I use is 10%.  I don't really worry unless they lose 10% of their original body weight.  Some of yours do appear to have lost that much.  It may be that they have some health problems that aren't immediately evident, tooth problems in particular can be tricky.  They may act normal, but then have trouble eating because their teeth need work.  I just had that experience with one of my females who had developed a point on one of her teeth.  She is with another in the cage, so all of the food was being eaten, but she started losing weight.  She acted fine otherwise, so her weight was my only indication there was a problem.  She went in for a dental procedure, and came back good as new.

Of course, if the animal changes behaviors, stops eating, or has abnormal poops, I would definitely take them to the vet asap.  Since your pets are new to you, you haven't really had a chance to get to know their behavior REALLY well, so I would take them to see the vet for a checkup.  Better safe than sorry.

[Jo Ann]

Hi Huggz,

     Chinchillas do not adapt to change easily, as a rule.  This could be part of the problem with the weight loss, knowing that they are going up in weight now, is good.  If the pet store kept them in such bad conditions, more than likely, they were not being fed properly either.

The food is being eaten, they get dried fruit, oats and locust bean treats once a day, their poop is formed.

     What dried fruit are you giving them?  How much (compare the size to a raisin) and how often?
Oats are good for them, but they also need a chinchilla pellet and hay.
I am not familiar with locust beans.  Could you explain a little better, please.

     Is their poop hard and dry, or moist but firm, or mushy and wet?

I transferred them to 2 4ft aquariums (with wire mesh on top to give adequate ventilation and allow heat to escape). 

      Unless you are changing the bedding daily or every other day, the fumes from the urine and poop can make the chins sick in an aquarium.  Even with mesh wire on the top, the chins can not get enough fresh air, their waste will cause big problems for their lungs.  They can not have a fan directed into the aquarium, the wind can make them sick.  They need  wire cages, so that the air can flow through naturally.

     The weight loss is rather drastic.
Female #1 is understandable, due to the birth of the kit.  Is the kit a male or a female?
Female #2 is about a 7% loss ... keep an eye on it
Female #3 is about an 11% loss ... this one really bothers me
Female #4 is about a 7% loss ... keep an eye on it
Male #1 is only a 3% loss ... this does not worry me, unless he continues to loose.
Male #2 is about a 10% loss ... this bothers me

A change in location, a new home, being separated, after living together, the change, not only in the cage, but the type of "cage" ... all of this probably stressed them.

I am glad you separated them!  Time will tell how many more kits will come from their "comunity living".   
If the kit born was a male, it will have to be taken out of the mother's cage before it is 10 weeks old.  Male chinchillas do have the ability to father kits at the tender age of ten weeks old.   

Do make sure they have lava stones for their teeth at all times, hay at all times, fresh water daily (wash and rinse bottle and refill with fresh water every day).

By the way, your #1 female is much to small to be having kits, so is #3 female and I would think hard before allowing #2 to have kits, with her weight.  #4 Female is large enough (unless part of this weight is due to a current pregnancy), but, not knowing any of the family health background, I would not take a chance in breeding her, either.

Are most of the chins back to their original weight (what they weighed when you bought them)?

 
Jo Ann

[QTPie61282]

Oh Duh.  I must have read it wrong.  I was going to say too....that seemed very abnormal for them to lose almost 300-400 grams.  But losing a little bit is normal like Jo Ann said, change is huge for them. 
It will take them a while.
But as I said too, may be a good idea to vet visit still.

Its so good of you to rescue these poor animals.  I just really hope that no more females are pregnant.  It would be really sad, especially with not knowing any of the chin's backgrounds.

What was wrong with this guy who just let these chins run around together.  One of the petshops here does that and I hate going in there.  He has three rabbit cages, with about 6-7 chins in each one.  Luckily he tries to separate the males from females, but he doesnt seem to hit me off as someone who knows the difference.

[Jo Ann]

One of the petshops here does that and I hate going in there.  He has three rabbit cages, with about 6-7 chins in each one.  Luckily he tries to separate the males from females, but he doesnt seem to hit me off as someone who knows the difference.

MOST pet store owners, managers and employees know little to NOTHING about how to care for or even handle a chinchilla.

Rabbit Cages?  What size is the wire? 
Chinchillas need to be in cages with 1/2" x 1" wire or smaller. 
1/2" is about the size of a dime. 
1" is about the size of a quarter. 
This makes it easier to judge the size of the wire, if you do not have a ruler to measure the wire.

A wire 1/2" x 2" or 3" long is bad ... they tend to let the longer width make up for the 1/2" tall and can slip through the wire.

Does he seem to do a pretty good turn over with them or are some of them long term residences?  Hopefully not ... It would be awful to go in and see new kits roaming around or dead because they were able to climb out between the wire in the cage.


Huggz, how are the chins doing now?  What are their weights?  Any new kits?

 
Jo Ann

[QTPie61282]

Im not exactly sure the wire size, but the openings are long maybe 2 inches, im not sure.

But he has a good amount of them in there for a while.  At his prices and his location, I doubt any of his costumers would buy any.  I bought a few from him to get them out of there a while back.

But I cant keep buying them all from him just to save them.  I want to know who the breeder is that he gets them from and scream at them.  These poor animals!

Most of them fight each other too since there are so many a cage.  Ive seen them spread out, one in each corner of the cage, one in the house, one on the food bowl and another somewhere in the middle of the cage, all trying not to cross each others paths.  And when they do, they hiss and shoot pee at eachother.  Its so sad!

[huggz]

Thank you all so much for your advice.  
I have booked them all in to see the vet....thats going to cost!  I think I had better get them insured ASAP! lol

To answer the questions raised.  
They are changed every other day, clean shavings, hay and straw, fresh food and water every day (bottles washed).  
I give them 2 raisins each (I hand feed them so I know that they are not all being eaten by a just a couple of chins!), a small handful of oats, the other dried fruits I give are date, chopped small and equivalent of 2 raisins worth and dried apricot and pineapple (1 small cube...about 1 raisin size).  I don't give all fruits every day, I vary it.  
I'm not sure what plant the locust beans come from, I will try and find out.  They are sold in packets (dried) as treats for all rodents.
The males and females are now separated.  1 of the females is definitely expecting and I think one of the others is too.  I'm not sure about the 4th one.  We are watching closely and continuing to weigh them weekly.
I believe they were being fed rabbit pellets in the shop (thats what it looked like), they are now being given quality chinchilla food.
Their poop is formed and slightly sticky to touch.
They have lava stones and wooden toys to chew as well as a chew stick (from a petshop) which is said to help keep their teeth trimmed.

It's been a very steep learning curve in the last 4/5 weeks!  I knew nothing about chins when I took on these bundles of fur except that they needed sand baths....not a lot to base their care on!  I have spent hours reading and trying to get it right but sometimes the sites give conflicting advice.  Its great to have a place where I can get first hand advice while I'm trying to get it right  

[QTPie61282]

Sounds like your doing a great job so far! 
I dont know anything about the beans, and I know fruit is not good, but we will have to see what the others say about the fruit.  I know they cant have fresh fruit, but I dont know about dry.  I know they sell dried papaya for them, so who knows.
But the vet costs will be worth it in the end when you know you have a healthy chin.

Your right, a lot of sites share different information.  Its hard to get a real straight answer because there is so little known about chins still.  Vets and breeders are still learning more and more about them as we go along.

[Jo Ann]

I am going to do some searching today in the books I have ... kinda in a rush right now ... but, I have always been told NOT to give a chinchilla a fruit that is grown with a pit in it .... I think apricot would fall into that category and maybe even the date.  Dates are also full of sugar.  The same goes for the pineapple ... it is high in natural sugar.

Papaya and rose hips are very good for chinchillas and contain vitamins they need.  Raisins and cranraisins (dried cranberries) are also good, but are fairly high in sugar.  I would suggest not more than 1 raisin or cranraisin per day. A chinchilla is safe having papaya or rose hips 2 or 3 in one day.  The enzymes in the papaya also help with the chinchilla's digestion.

For the sticky poop, you might want to try burnt toast (wheat toast if you have it) ... burnt, as in ... wait till you see a little smoke before you take it out of the toaster.  It is the charcoal that helps prevent/cure diarrhea ... it does not sound like they have it yet, but may have it soon if nothing is done.

I'm not sure what plant the locust beans come from, I will try and find out.  They are sold in packets (dried) as treats for all rodents.

Please do not consider a chinchilla in the same class with all rodents.   This is what most manufactures do and it is killing many chinchillas.   Example: Pet grade corn is acceptable for most rodents in the domestic rodent family.   It is NOT good for chinchillas. 

A chinchilla is an exotic animal and requires special food and treatment.

I have to     you for taking on these poor chinchillas, even with mistakes you may make as a new owner ... I am sure they are being taken care of much better now, then how they were being taken care of where they were.  Keep up the good work! 

 
Jo Ann

[huggz]

We had an en masse vet vistit today.  All of them are healthy and the 2 who have lost over 10% of their weight were given a full and thorough check up.  Their teeth are fine and the vet says that the loss is very likely due to a combination of the stress of the move and the extra space they have to exercise in.  He suggested continuing to weigh Sweetpea (the male) and Auntie (the female) weekly and if they continue to lose he will give them a whiff of anaethetic gas so that he can examine their back teeth more thoroughly.  Sweetpea was kind enough to poop all over the table and the vet said the poop was of a normal appearance and consistancy 
The cost wasnt as bad as I feared, he examined them all for £45, the individual fee is £15 so I got a bargain!  The vet was very taken with baby Mutley who sat on his hand and proceeded to groom her whiskers 

He;ena

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Awww how cute.
Glad they are all healthy, and have you.

A note on the extra space they have.
I have a chin with ADHD Attention deficient hyper activity dosorder.
He is the smallest chin I have and never stops running around and around and around his cage.
I have to keep him a smaller cage or he looses weight.
He still runs but has less room so doesn't run as far I guess, or gets board and stops.