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[kau_cinta_ku]

ok all sorry to have to make this my first post on here. but the babies were deff. unexpected as when we bought these 2 chins 3 monthes ago we were told that they were only 3 monthes old. so them now only being 6 monthes old I really wasn't expecting babies so soon. but is there anything special we need to be doing for the babies or the parents? we already feed them alfalfa, and pellets.

here is a pic. of the dad.

and here is the mother


and here are pics of the new babies.
here is the oldest born at 3:20pm

and the youngest born around 4:00pm




any help would be greatly appreciated as I am still very new to all this and like I said wasn't expecting so soon.

thanks
Sam

[BrightEyed]

There is a whole lot you need to be doing. The chins should never have been caged together so soon in the first place, but now its too late so you need to start doing a lot more research. Chins should not be bred until they are atleast 8 months old and of good weight (around 650 grams) because of a number of complications for mom and babies. The first thing you need to do is make sure dad is not in the same cage as mom (if they are still together it may be too late and they might have mated again which is too soon for mom and is known as breed back). Go to walmart or target (in kitchen section) and look for a digital scale that weighs in grams so you can keep up with each chins weight (including mom and I would weigh dad too to know his size). The cage bars in the picture are too far apart for the little kits who can escape or be injured so you either need to find a new cage with wire mesh about 1/2 inch x 1/2 inch sqaures or you can go to Home Depot or Lowes and get wire mesh of that size and cut it and apply it to your cage yourself (you'll need hooks used in wire cages to build or hold them together you might not be able to find in anything but a feed store to apply the mesh to the cage).

Instead of listing everything in a post I think you should use this Chinchilla Club site to research breeding on as many different sights you find. There is a lot of info you will learn that way and sights with breeding information usually have the basics + more.

Use the search engine and search for breeding.

Good luck.. and once you know the weights and such I would post it on here so we can see if they are normal or need help.

[Abby W.]

Sam,

I agree with Bright Eyed that you need to start doing a LOT of research.  But for the sake of expediency I will try to list everything you need to do in the immediate future:

For Dad:  Separate him from mom.  You will need to get a second cage for him, which I would keep nearby mom, but at least 6 inches away, so they cannot mate again, if they haven't already.  Female chins go into heat immediately after giving birth, so she is likely already pregnant again, but it is good to separate them to be careful.

For Mom: 

1) You need to feel her belly and make sure it is soft.  If her stomach feels hard or has any lumps inside she needs to see a vet ASAP, as it is possible she has a third kit (dead) or the afterbirth still inside, and get a serious and life-threatening infection.  Also, check her vulva to make sure she is not still bleeding from a tear.

2) Give her a second water bottle on her cage with 50/50 water and either cranberry or apple juice.  Make sure you get the kind with no sugar added.  This will encourage water consumption which will help her produce enough milk for her babies.

3) Get yourself a kitchen scale that measures in grams, as Bright Eyed said.  Weigh mom every day and make sure she is maintaining her weight.  Also, please list her weight on here, so we know if she has any additional needs.
Being so young, I would recommend a supplement, as she is still growing herself, and her body is trying to support her babies as well.  CA Chins website has a good supplement recipe, and maybe some of the other members here could tell you what they use.  I would provide at the least some cuttlebone, and add some calf manna to her food, to make sure she gets enough calcium.  Too little calcium can cause hypocalcemia, which can lead to seizures, and can be life-threatening.

4) DO NOT let mom take a dust bath for at least the next week.  Her vulva will remain open from the delivery for a time, and allowing her to bathe too soon can lead to infection.

For the kits:

1) Weigh them and post their weights on here.  You should weigh them twice a day for the next couple of days to see how they are holding their weight.  A normal healthy kit will weigh somewhere between 35 and 55 grams or so.  Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.  If they are too small they will need supplementing from you.

2) Buy and keep on hand some KMR kitten milk replacer formula, some nutrical for ferrets (both of these can be found at Petsmart), and some Gerber baby rice cereal.  Also some eye droppers for feeding, in case mom doesn't produce enough milk. Jo Ann has a video somewhere to show you how to feed the babies properly if they need it.

3) Measure your cage bars for the kits.  If they have spacing of greater than 1/2" you will need to add wire mesh, as Bright Eyed said.  You will need a roll of 1/2" x 1/2" hardware cloth, some c-rings or j-rings, and the pliers for applying them, which you can get at a farm supply store.

So a shopping list for today would include:

2nd cage for dad
1/2" x 1/2" wire mesh
c-rings or j-rings
pliers for applying rings
cranberry or apple juice (no sugar added)
digital kitchen scale (weighs in grams)
KMR kitten milk replacer
Gerber Baby rice cereal
Nutrical
Eye droppers

After you get all of that please let us know the weights and we will see if we can walk you through what comes next.  I hope everything is ok.  Keep us posted!

[BrightEyed]

Wow- Abby, you did good getting all that info in a post. I can't keep things together that short, that well.

Sam,
I hope everything is going well and please ask as many ?s as you can when you need to. Keep us updated!

[kau_cinta_ku]

thankyou so much for the info so far. the oldest baby weiges in at 30 grams and the youngest is at around 50 grams. the mother weighs in at 550 grams. I didn't notice any tears around the vulva and her stomach is soft (no lumps)

we put the mother and the babies into a seprate cage yeaterday away from the male after we noticed that the male wouldn't leave her alone. the new cage that the babies and mothers are in is just a big aquarium 75 gal. so no cage bars to deal with.

we bought gerber apple juice and mixed it 50/50 with water and the mother has beeen drinking really well. also got the KMR both the powdered and the liquid kind. is there a better one to use between them? also got the rice cereral and I have plenty of extra eye droppers from my reef tank.

[Sweetnessheart]

Sounds like you are doing great following all of the directions....!       If you keep up with everything like Abby and Brighteyed have said, all should go well.  Hopefully, Dad didn't mate with Mom.....   You'll just have keep an eye out.

[Abby W.]

OK, sounds like reasonable weights all around.  Keep weighing the kits twice a day.  At first you may notice a small amount of weight loss (a few grams, no more).  This is because for the first 24-36 hours mom isn't producing milk.  She secretes colostrum, which is rich in antibodies, and VERY important for the kits' immune systems, but not nourishing like milk.  After the first day or two you should notice weight gain in each kit on a daily basis.  A health kit will gain 1-2 grams each day, especially at the beginning.  Because they have such a difference in weight, I would take the larger kit out a couple of times per day (for 10 minutes or so at a atime) and allow the smaller one nursing time alone with mom.  If the size difference is too much the larger kit may push the smaller one away and keep them from nursing enough.  Giving the smaller one access to mom without competition for a little while will help it to catch up with its sibling. 

BY the way, do you know how to determine the sex of the babies?  Loook at the genitals, you will see an anus and a fleshy cone.  This is where the penis is for the male.  If the two parts (the anus and the genitalia) are touching, then the kit is female, if there is a space between the two, then it is male.  I think Jamie has pics on her site that should help you figure out the difference.

As far as the KMR is concerned, both kinds are fine, but the powder is more cost effective because you can make only as much as you need, so less goes to waste.  The liquid, once open, only lasts for 24-48 hours.  At their current weights the kits should not need to be supplemented.  If they begin to lose weight rapidly or are not gaining steadily in the next few days you may need to give them a boost with some extra feeding.

It sounds like everything is going well so far.  Please keep us posted on their progress.  Good luck!

[ChillinChinchillas]

I am still learning as well, but I was under the impression that aquariums were a no-no because they did not allow enough natural air flow. Are aquariums good for mommy and babies. I have spent alot of time on my cage designs, so if this is incorrect, please let me know. Aquariums sound safer due to the babies not being able to climb and fall.

[Abby W.]

You are correct.  Aquariums, as a rule, are not the best place to house a chin.  In this case, because the aquarium is so large, I think it will be ok as temporary housing.  But, Sam, you will want to move them into a proper cage at some point in the near future (within the next week or so).

As far as safety in a cage for babies, I move mine into maternity cages which are much shorter than my normal cages.  I build my own maternity cages to be 12" high, and line the floor with newspapers so the babies have somewhere soft to land. By the time they are 4 weeks old, however, the babies are usually sufficiently good jumpers and climbers that I can move them into a regular size cage.  I just make sure to add an extra thick layers of pine to the floor for them.

[Debbie.nl.ca]

You can put them all back together in 5 days, after her heat passes.Some of mine like up to 10 days, as Dad can still be a little persistant.
That's if the bar width is safe for the kits.
I hope you have something over the top of the tank that will let good air flow.
I expect the Mom was older than you were told too. At 550 grams after a birth, at 6 months old sounds a tad large to me. But she could be a whopper in waiting.
A30 gram kit is a tad small, keep an eye that it gets enough milk from Mom. You may want to give the small one a little time alone with Mom while you play with the bigger ones. You can even put bthem with the Dad for 30 minutes if he's a good Dad.
Keep us posted.

[kau_cinta_ku]

first off thanks for the info still. the dad has his own cage now not a tank it is the same as the other cage but put the smaller wires on it so that is where the kits and mother are at.

I am also guessing they are older but still can't say for sure as I had to take their word.

the mother still weighs in at around 500-550grams and the babies both weigh at around 50grams how much weight are they supposed to put on a day around? as one isn't gaining weight but also isn't losing weight and the other is only gaining about 10grams a day.

we have let the kits run around the daddy a little bit and seems all he does is sniff them and cuddle with them so he seems to be a good dad ATM.

I will try to take some more pic.s later on of the new kits.

thanks again.

[Abby W.]

The smaller one has gained 20 grams since birth?  If that is accurate then that one is doing very well.  I would watch them when they are with mom to make sure each kit is getting nursing time with her.  Also, watch to see if they fight over a particular nipple, or if they each tend to go to a specific one.  It is a little concerning that the other baby has not gained anything since the other day.  It leads me to believe that one is not getting a lot of mom's milk, either from a lack of adequate nursing time, or possibly she is producing milk unevenly, meaning that some of her nipples are giving more milk than others.  If this is the case, it's possible the other kit is monopolizing the "good" nipple, and not allowing the other one to nurse from it.  Since they are now of equal size, it is probably not necessary to give extra nursing time to either kit now. 

It sounds like you are doing a great job!  These kits should be just fine.  Keep up the good work!

[kau_cinta_ku]

actually it is hard to say their actual weight as the scale isn't digital but I can tell the smallest one has gained some weight. we are gonna pick up a digital scale this weekend to make reading alot easier. hopefully they have those at walmart.


as for the nipple they prefer I have noticed they each have their own one they prefer.

[BrightEyed]

sounds like your doin very well.

I know I had to go to Target for my digital scale. The Walmart closest to my house didn't have them but I would think they might in other areas. My original scale was not digital so I had to upgrade also since the readings aren't as accurate.

I (and the rest of us I'm sure) Would love to see pictures as they grow

keep up the good work 

[Debbie.nl.ca]

 
Yes it's time for those pics