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Author Topic: Vinegar, bleach, or both?  (Read 2970 times)

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iheartchins

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Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« on: July 27, 2014, 12:36:18 PM »

Hi, I'm disinfecting a chinchilla cage that I previously used for different chins (they sadly passed away) and am wondering if I should use vinegar, bleach, or both to disinfect and how much. Thanks
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GrayRodent

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2014, 03:30:16 PM »

Bleach 5% bleach-water solution is good. Just don't use it around live chins. If they died of anything contagious replace any wood shelving or porous items.
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iheartchins

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2014, 03:43:15 PM »

Thanks for the reply! Before you'd replied I had already cleaned thoroughly with 50/50 vinegar solution with a spray bottle. I also used a sponge after the vinegar was sprayed to scrub and washed it off with water after it soaked. I threw all the items away that the previous chins had used (like food bowls, huts, water bottles, chews, etc) but still have the plastic pans that go on the bottom of the cage. Hope it's okay to use those again (they were cleaned too). Now the cage is airing out outside. Btw I have no idea what the previous chins passed from, but I'm pretty sure it was contagious because they passed within a day or 2 from each other :/
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iheartchins

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2014, 03:49:41 PM »

Also, the cage has a little bit of rust on it (not sure from what) and it's a fairly new cage. The rust is on some of the bars. What should I do about it? (Buying a new cage isn't really an option since this one was expensive and is not a year old yet.)  :(
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GrayRodent

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2014, 06:10:41 PM »

I'm very sorry to hear of your loss.  ::cry222::: It is not uncommon for chinchillas to die one after the other even if the problem is not contagious when they are closely bonded.

It is safer to treat it like it is contagious though and think through possible causes. When multiple animals die it is usually pneumonia, mold contamination, or overheating but if they were both old (around 10 years) natural causes cannot be ruled out.

A big one to consider is mold contamination of the pellets or hay. Always smell hay before you buy it. I have a lot of problems here in Georgia. Chinchillas' diet should be restricted to hay and pellets as many things can be poisonous to them. Most chinchilla owners give treats but the kind of treats they can have is extremely limited. Environmental temperature should never exceed 75F, although 73F is a safer upper limit. Pneumonia, unfortunately, is sometimes spontaneous, but I think it is most often caused when a chinchilla looses weight for other reasons (especially upper respiratory infection), and then becomes more vulnerable to it. Almost always pneumonia is fatal in chins.

For future reference I recommend to all pet owners to weigh your chinchillas once a week and keep logs. A steep decrease of 15-20% of healthy weight indicates illness and requires prompt diagnosis and treatment. The trend itself can also be helpful in diagnosis. Always keep track of daily food and water consumption and fecal output. It's harder to do with two in a cage but not impossible. With my chin I measure his water with a ruler fastened to the bottle but you don't have to go to that extreme. I caught a clog in the watering system and an abnormal reaction to antibiotics using this method so it is very effective.

I recommend using bleach because vinegar is just not a very strong disinfectant. It leaves no harmful residue and kills pretty much everything. The downside is that bleach fumes are highly toxic until the solution dries and should not be used around chins, birds, or any small animals in the same room. The plastic pans should be bleached as well. Clean them last to avoid cross-contamination. If the plastic shows signs of being chewed replace them with metal pans if possible. Plastic that is ingested can also kill chinchillas in various ways. Let everything dry in direct sunlight if possible as sunlight also helps disinfect but don't let any birds or squirrels get onto the cage.

The cage can be painted with spray paint marketed as non-toxic after it dries, designed for metal applications. This is common practice with chinchilla breeders. You'll want to clean the rust with a cleaner such as CLR first. Make sure it is rinsed well afterwards an thoroughly dry before painting. Your cage should be as good as new.

Be sure to install wooden shelves in the cage as well. They are important for your chinchillas' well being.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 06:16:58 PM by GrayRodent »
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iheartchins

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2014, 06:31:52 PM »

Thanks for your help (: If the previous chins died of mold contamination in their food, was it just a coincidence they died at the same time? They weren't bonded very well since they lived in different levels of the cage.

 I used the vinegar because I've read several places that the least bit of bleach left or scent can make a chin really sick or die. I was scared that a little bleach would've been left and hurt them, and I've read on a lot of websites to use vinegar, but if needed I could probably reclean it :p Also, the cage (that I cleaned) hasn't been used for almost a year if that helps at all.

Few more questions: Should I change the chinchillas' food out daily if they haven't eaten it all?
Would just sanding down or covering the rust be okay instead of painting it?
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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2014, 07:40:43 PM »

I use bleach myself. Never had a problem. If you don't know what caused the death I highly recommend it. The bleach is not toxic when it is completely dry. The active chemical is chlorine which evaporates quickly. Vinegar is not a good disinfectant so I recommend finding a suitable alternative. There may be other more effective pet safe commercial cleaners available that you may feel safer with. It is your judgement call.

If it was mold contamination it would show up if you added bad food to both your pet's dishes at the same time or within days of each other. If present mold can produce very potent toxins. Usually other symptoms would show up unless it's a really heavy dose including drooling, depression, and loose stools.

You may be surprised at how chinchillas can communicate with each other through the bars and how interdependent they can be. With that being said I am still highly concerned about the timing. It is still very unusual.

Sanding down the rust will work but the rust may come back and get worse. Painting will extend the life of your cage.

You don't have to change out the food in the bowls daily. Just make sure they have a constant supply of pellets. Mold problems usually occur when storing food in large quantities in damp climates. It is an unusual problem but not unheard of. Moldy hay is more common but it is usually molded where it is bailed before distribution to stores. It is usually very noticeable with a musty odor and dark discoloring on the hay. Again, usually, symptoms occur prior to death.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 08:19:22 PM by GrayRodent »
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iheartchins

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2014, 08:47:05 PM »

Alright, I may reclean the cage this week with the bleach. How many parts to water?

I noticed no symptoms in the first chin that passed. She was jumping around normally and I heard a thud (but wasn't alarmed because they make noise when they jump) and looked over and she was laying on her side paralyzed. The other chin seemed sluggish before she passed but didn't die on her side. I think she may have been jerking a but too- seizure like, but I'm not for sure. These 2 chinchillas never really did get along. I got them at different times from a pet store.

I think I'll try sanding the cage down only first and see it that takes care of it. If not, paint will have to do.

I think I'm also replacing the plastic shelves that are all chewed up from the previous chins. I would get metal, but I'm thinking I'll get plastic and put fleece liners on the pans and shelves.
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GrayRodent

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2014, 11:10:02 AM »

CDC guidelines call for a 1:10 (1 part household bleach to 10 parts water)
http://www.cdc.gov/hicpac/Disinfection_Sterilization/6_0disinfection.html
Be sure to hose the cage down with water after you bleach it to prevent any residue from the soapy part of it.

I know others have had good success with fleece. Occasionally you'll get a chinchilla that makes a habit of chewing it and if that happens you may need to remove the fleece to prevent ingestion.

The way your chinchillas died is very mysterious. There is one other thing I can think of that could cause that and that is acute exposure to smoke or toxic fumes such as overheated teflon or household cleaners. Febreeze is a well known candidate for that. Whatever it was I hope your new chins will get along better.
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kageri

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2014, 02:09:45 PM »

When bleach dries it just leaves behind a harmless salt.  While you do still want to wipe things off to remove the residue it is not going to cause problems.  There should be no bleach smell once it's dry.

Personally I do use vinegar.  There are some things it doesn't kill as well as bleach when you are dealing with contagions so a bleach scrub after an illness is a good idea but otherwise studies have found it kills as many germs as bleach.  Just not all the same ones.  Vinegar evaporates to leave nothing but water behind and with the water being pure there is not even hard water deposits left so there is no need to rinse it off.  It also dissolves the alkaline urine stains and can be used without removing the cage from a room full of chins.  The problem with vinegar though is that it will eat metal.  Powder coating is safe but many galvanized pans or any place the coating has chipped on the bars will be stripped of it's galvanizing and rusted sooner.
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iheartchins

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Re: Vinegar, bleach, or both?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2014, 05:05:23 PM »

Yeah, I think I'll definitely bleach this week and probably order the pans and fleece. I think the vinegar maybe caused some of the rusting where the paint was thin, so I'll try and sand.

I thought the chinchilla deaths a while ago were odd too. I'm really wondering what it was. I'm pretty sure there wasn't any smoke or fabreeze in the room then either. Maybe it was molded food?
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