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Author Topic: mam just gave birth help  (Read 17563 times)

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kay

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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2013, 03:25:29 PM »

Hi thanks for advice but i put fresh hay and pellets in daily, i let him out tonight again for a good hour loads of poos so i think he must be eating let mum out with him he seeemed fine just havnt seen him eat his pellets maybe hesz eating them when im not about, I dont no whether to gethim neutered or just put him in a cage next to mum and baby i just dont no whether to risk the operation for him to be with mother and baby im pretty sure its a girl  ;) i will double check when a bit bigger. She is now 55 grams so put on ten in four days is that good? thanks again Kay :)
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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2013, 06:38:24 PM »

 ::silly::  This must be your first litter.  The best and funniest times will be over the next month.  Your kit will jump around in a rather odd manner we call "pop-corning"  You'll know as soon as you see it.  I have a video on my site where you can see one ... they are soooo cute when they do that.  http://www.luvnchins.com/VideoChinchillaAntics.html

Mom and dad must be kept separated for 10 days ... this is the time when she can easily (but dangerously get pregnant again) ... on day 10 (this is also when mom and kit/kits get their first dust bath since birth) Daddy can rejoin mom, if she will let him.  Some will and some will not.  I have one chin-mom that will welcome dad back if she has only female kits ... if she has any male kits in the litter she will not allow him back until the kits are weaned and in another cage.  This is the only one that does it that way.  Other chin moms welcome dad and some flat refuse to let him back as long as she is nursing the kits and they are in the cage with her.  I have found (over many years) if you will let mom out for some R&R (rest and relaxation) from the kits on a daily basis, she seems to be much better with the kits.  Also, during mom's 'free play time'  I let dad in with the kits.  This keeps his scent in the cage and on the kits and will usually assure mom's willingness to let dad return after the 10 day separation time.  It is a must to keep a close eye on daddy and the kits while daddy is in the cage and momma is out playing.  It is very, very rare, but has been known to happen, that the dad will kill the kits, especially the male ones.  Usually daddy becomes a great helping hand to momma.  He will snuggle with and help clean the kits.  I have one pair that the kits will run to momma to be fed, but as soon as they finish eating, dad takes over and cleans, plays with and snuggles with the kits while momma then enjoys her quiet time on another shelf.  Remember, it can go many different ways ... every chin and every chin couple are unique!  Even the same pair may be different with each different litter.

There is a huge difference in "ability to do" and a "healthy idea to do" something ... with chins as well as it is with humans.  A male chinchilla has the 'ability to' impregnate a female chinchilla at the tender age of 10 weeks old.  Of course, the female may kill him for even attempting it.  A female chinchilla has the 'ability to' get pregnant at 3 months of age, but she is not developed enough or large enough to safely deliver the kits and usually, both little momma and all kits perish.  Chinchillas have no boundaries when it comes to reproducing ... within or out side the immediately family.  Inbreeding is not a good or healthy practice ... soooooo ... make sure if you have a male kit, that he is in his own cage before 10 weeks of age and that the female kits are in their own cage before they turn 3 months old.

Now, lets get to the cages and housing different chins together.  Two females alone usually work out, but not always.  Two males alone usually work out, but not always.  One of the 'not always' is when two females are housed together and one has a litter.  Sometimes they help with the litter, other times they may kill the litter.  You never know for sure.  The main 'not always' can turn into 'an almost never' when it comes to housing two males together when there is a female in the same room or even the same level in the house.  Why?  Mother Nature calls it 'survival of the fittest'.  Two males may get along for a long time, but, usually there will come a day when there is a female in season within sniffing distance ... she may be all the way across the room or even in another room ... but, males have been know to fight to the death for the possibility of breeding that female.  They may never get the chance ... she's in another cage ... but they will fight for the right to be the one that will have that chance.   I found this out in a very hard way ... a father and son were housed together for almost a year, then one of the females went into season ... the males fought, both were in bad shape, but I came very close to losing the son.  I can not get to the picture of the son, due to computer problems right not, but believe me, I sat and cried when I saw him.  There may be a picture on one of the older threads with a story about them.

42 grams is not a bad weight for a newborn kit ... it is in the upper part of normal range.  I have had several kits live that weighed 21 grams at birth.  Then there was the brother and sister born at the same time in a superfoetation situation.  A female born weighing 18 grams lived ... her brother was 52 grams.  Quite a site side by side.  Both conceived at different times, but born on the same day.  It was a struggle for the little female, but she had a good mom and a loving brother that allowed mom to give her the most attention.

As bad as this may sound, a momma chin usually knows when there is something wrong with a kit and that he will probably not survive.  Again, Mother Nature takes over.  Momma chin will often abandon a kit and move her other kits to the far side of the cage to care for them if there is something wrong with the kit or if she does not have enough milk for all of the kits (such as in a large litter of 4 to 6 kits).  This leaves the kit to die from getting chilled or from lack of nourishment.  There are also times a momma will kill one before she will allow it to suffer very long.  This is an instinct chinchillas are born with, it is not being mean or cruel, but the only way she can keep the remaining kit/kits alive and healthy.  It is nature's way of allowing the healthy to survive and those that would suffer, not to suffer any more than necessary.

Chinchillas are shall we say 'well endowed' and have been known to mate when cages are less than 3" apart, so keep them close enough to keep their scents of each other and far enough away to play it safe.  :)  This is for the cage you have any male chins in that is close to a female's cage. 

If daddy is not eating good, make him special treats made of fresh hay (Alfalfa if it's available) ground almost to a powder in your blender (let the dust settle before opening the top of the blender), mixed with a little bit of water and a drop or two of apple juice ... just enough to make it hold together and shape them in little football shapes ... about the size of a raisin.  Keep in an air tight container in the refrigerate and give him one or two at a time.  During this time give him your attention 100% ... he may be feeling a bit left out with all the attention going to mom and her new kit.  Be sure he gets his needed attention also.   ::nod::

Hope this has helped.

 ::wave::  Jo Ann
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kay

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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2013, 05:27:51 AM »

Thanks jo ann thats a great help  :) the thing i'm worried about the most is what to do with dad do i get him neutered or keep him seperate cage next to mums and daughter, and if i put him back in the top of the cage with mam after 10 days will he be ok as it is only half the size what they are both used to (i halved the cage so mum was whith baby in a smaller cage just one shelf 3" from floor so both mum n baby can get on) ? Thanks again for the great advice.

Kay
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kay

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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2013, 05:34:52 AM »

aww love the video soo cute  ;)
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kay

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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2013, 05:09:50 AM »

i'm worried about the most is what to do with dad do i get him neutered or keep him seperate cage next to mums and daughter, and if i put him back in the top of the cage with mam after 10 days will he be ok as it is only half the size what they are both used to (i halved the cage so mum was whith baby in a smaller cage just one shelf 3" from floor so both mum n baby can get on) ? advice anyone please  :)

Kay
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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2013, 08:18:07 AM »

JoAnn mentioned that if you don't separate the cages at least 3" apart you can't prevent breeding through the bars of the cage. If you've ever observed the male cleaning himself you'll understand how that is possible.

IMO the best solution is to have separate cages and to pair the male with another male instead of having him neutered as long as his weight is okay. You can read more about cages and requirements here:

http://www.chinclub.net/qna/mojofaq.cgi?cat=housing

Regarding the shelf - I'm not sure. As long as it's sturdy (and doesn't risk crushing the other chinchilla if the female lands on top of it) and does not prevent nursing I don't think it's going to be a problem.
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kay

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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2013, 02:41:17 PM »

thanks i can't pair him with another male as ive been told they may fight with 2 females in the same room (now where else for them to go) i think the best thing allround is to get him neutered then he can hopefully go back in with mother and daughter and be happy again ive phoned around and got a vet that specialises in chinchillas in another town but not too far away we go 10.30 am so wish me lots of luck im quite stressed atout it  :(
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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2013, 04:49:23 PM »

Sounds good. I recommend that you ask for a recovery diet such as Oxbow Critical Care and know how to use it and make sure you have feeding syringes on hand. A good vet should supply you with a way to hand feed. It is better than using wet pellets. I know that some owners loose their chinchillas because they are not watching for anorexia after the surgery. It is common but still might not be a problem for you. Also I recommend scrubbing the male's cage using bleach (of course never use bleach in the same room with a chinchilla) to make it as clean as possible before you put him back in after the surgery and do what you can to minimize contact with food dust and particles on the floor of the cage. I'll be praying for you.
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kay

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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2013, 01:03:08 PM »

Thanks again  :) chico came out of the operation great I put him in the bottom half of the cage on some fleece and he started eating his hay im not getting him out for a run tonight and ive took out his climbing things (he still has wooden toys to chew) the vet gave me something for the pain I asked for some critical care and she said I shouldn't need it and call her if hes not eating tomorrow but hopefully hel be fine fingers crossed im soo pleased he came out of the operation now just want him back to normal quickly as poss I will keep you posted.

Kay.
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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2013, 01:16:25 PM »

I am so glad to hear that. Thanks for the update.
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kay

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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2013, 04:16:51 AM »

Hi baby is now 70gr and mum is eating and drinking well  :) chico the dad had his operation on Tuesday he was alert and looked like normal when I picked him up he's pooing fine but doesn't seem to be eating many of his pellets, he seemed to go off his pellets just before lucy gave birth hes heating hay and the half of bitesize shredded wheat, ive been giving him his pain relief twice a day, do I need to mix his pellets with water and try feeding him that way? when do you think its ok to let him out for a play?

Kay
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kay

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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2013, 04:44:31 AM »

do you think he's got bored with these pellets and should I try buying some different and mixing them in with his old to see if its them he;s gone off or just mite be all the upheaval he's had? thanks kay
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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2013, 05:39:48 AM »

As long as he's eating hay and his fecal output seems to be normal (is not small and hard or scant) I wouldn't worry too much about it. The trauma from the surgery and possibly the medications can cause him to eat less. If you notice constipation you can try supplementing with mashed pellets but I still recommend Critical Care or something like it if that happens, and definitely contact the vet if that happens.
As far as the pellets themselves changing them now can potentially make the problem worse and is best done when the chinchilla is healthy. As far as letting him out I found this article that you might find helpful:
http://chinchillachronicles.com/chinchilla_castration.html
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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2013, 07:21:54 AM »

 ::silly::  Chinchillas do not respond to surgery well at all.   :::(((   There are so many different complications that can happen.   :-\   The only way I would put one of mine through surgery would be IF that little one's life were at stake and there were no other possible options that would save it's life.   Over the pas 20+ years, I have heard more chinchilla owners say they would never do it again ... usually because a 'complication' from the surgery or an after affect from it caused the little one to die.

Each of us has to decide for ourselves what chances we are willing to take with the life of these precious creatures.  It is never an easy decision.  One thing you might want to question your vet about is: "How many of these surgeries have you done? " and "What was the final outcome?"  I would even ask if you could talk to some of the other chin owners that he had done surgery on their chinchillas.  It's always best to be safe rather than sorry.  A vet with a good surgical record on chinchillas should not refuse your request.  If he does ... I would ask myself ... What does he have to hide?

Hope this helps.
 ::wave::  Jo Ann

PS Keep us posted!

I posted this before I realized you already had him neutered.   I am not a vet, but I have had 20 + years with chinchillas.  I can only give you my personal opinion as to what I would do ... according to the experiences I have had with chinchillas over the years.  (I have had over 200 chinchillas at the same time over many years.)  I always found it a good thing to use the Critical Care and/or  acidophilus  after a surgery or during an illness or injury.  Do keep in mind the critical care and/or  acidophilus needs to be kept refrigerated once it has been opened.   And it needs to be given halfway between any doses of antibiotic or pain medication.   Surgery and the pain medication and antibiotics work against a chin to have a normal digestive progress.  The normal digestive system is a must for a chinchilla.  Antibiotics will kill all bacteria ... the bad and the good ... the antibiotic does not know the difference in them.  The 'good' bacteria is often called 'flora' and is necessary to properly digest the food.   The good bacteria or 'flora' needs to be replinished on a regular basis, but can not be given at the same time or close to the same time as an antibiotic or the will cancel each other out and it will be as if they have been geting nothing.   If the food is not being properly digested you will usually find smaller, dryer poops and they will continue to decrease in number.  Because of this, the system becomes stopped-up and the chin feels 'full' and not hungry and will quit eating.  Once this happens, it can cause some major problems.  The chin can literally die of hunger because he thinks he fills 'full', when in reality, he is stopped up or constipated.  Judge by the ammount of food he is eating on a daily basis, not just the poop at the bottom of the cage.  Something to think about.   You say the male is in the bottom half of the cage ... If you have your male in the bottom half of the cage and the female and her kit in the top half of the cage, unless you have a solid pan between the two levels, to catch the mom and kit's poop and pee ... much of the poop/feces you are seeing in the bottom is probably from the mom and the kit.  Also, keeping his area clean is a must ... if there is no solid divider between the two levels ... the pee/urin from the mom and kit are contanimating the lower level. 

I would give him Alfalfa hay at this time, he needs the extra nurishment it will provide him. 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 08:07:25 AM by Jo Ann »
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Re: mam just gave birth help
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2013, 12:04:17 PM »

Sorry to hear of the loss of a little one. A chin is a hard thing to lose at any age.

 As for housing I would definitely  consider separate cages until u know for sure the sexes and whether or not they will be compatible.  I have 2 males and 2 females each in a separate cage but next to each other.  they do talk to each other from cage to cage.  Although its mostly the 2 youngest that seem to talk to each other more. Although the youngest will still start chatting when I am petting the mother.
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