Chinchilla Community Forums
Breeders => New Births => Topic started by: kay on April 23, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
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Hi everyone my chin just gave birth one seems fine under her feeding and sqeeking but the other it is 42grms and eyes shut and not being able to get under mam properly help i dont no what to do i got her out cos it looked like mam was standing on her/him and he was cool but still moving help please
kay
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The 42g kit may be underdeveloped and dying. You can try to remove the healthy kit and see if the small one will nurse on its own. If it does then you can rotate the kits every hour. You can try feeding kitten formula with an eyedropper.
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Also you will need to open its eyes if it does survive. You can use a cotton swab and warm water to gently coax the eyelids open. Otherwise serious complications will present later.
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thanks for reply but the smaller one died abt five minutes after i posted this very upset, have i to clean the cage out tmorow? the bigger kit seems to be ok fingers crossed
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I'm very sad for your loss. I hate to see animals die like that. It is something that you see on occasion with new litters in any species.
I would not worry about cleaning the cage except for normal cleanings. The fact the eyes were unopened is a strong indicator that it was not an infection but that the kit was not fully developed or had a birth defect. Chances are the bigger one will turn out to be just fine. Is this your first time with newborns? Is this one you bred?
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I rehomed tham of someone who couldnt look after them anymore they said they were 2 males so was a surprise this morning when found 2 babies ive seperated the male its a week since they were cleaned out so i was woried it should be cleaned out sooner rather than later what do you think thanks in advance kay
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Certainly clean the cage if it needs it. There is nothing wrong with doing that. Also wait at least a week before you give a dust bath to the female and the kit to allow the female to heal up from birth. Be careful that the cage bar spacing is no greater than 1" x 1/2" or the kit can escape and die.
Separating the male was the right thing to do but this can be very hard on the male so make sure he keeps eating and does not get depressed. Make sure to keep the cages in the same room. If the surviving kit is male you may be able to pair them together once it is weaned. If it's female I recommend you keep it with the mom permanently since the female is used to living with another chinchilla.
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Thanks a lot for your help i am going to clean the cage now and split their cage so the dad has the top for now till i no what sex the baby is then buy a new cage im hoping its a girl andd then she can stay with mam and i will get dad neuterd, i will keeep you posted :)
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Neutering is very expensive and is also very risky. It is not like neutering a cat or dog because their genitals are inside of the body. Complications can be rather gruesome. Your best option, IMO, if the kit is not male, is to attempt to pair him with another male chinchilla after you fully research what it takes to introduce chinchillas. If you decide to get the neutering done you want to look for a vet experienced with neutering chinchillas if at all possible and be willing to provide intensive post-operative care, and be willing to loose the chinchilla to possible complications.
Males are easier to pair than females but females can be paired with care. Also understand some chinchillas will not take to each other no matter what. If the kit is male you'll might want to try to pair the female with another and keep the pairs in separate cages. This is going to depend on how well the chinchillas take to being separated. I know some chinchillas die after being separated because they get depressed and simply stop eating and others do quite well by themselves.
Another thing you might want to consider is that you want two inches of spacing between the male and female or you risk them mating through the bars and if you bring in a fourth chinchilla there can be fighting through the bars. I highly recommend getting a separate care and getting ready for having two pairs.
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Yes i know about neutering and it can be dangerous ive asked my vet and he said he has done it befor with a great outcome but i dont know whether i want to risk it he's about 6 years i think it best to get a cage that i can keep them seperated but see each other, do you know how i will no if mam has got milk? thanks again
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Just be careful with neutering as sometimes they can get infections in their sutures after the surgery. It is easier to neuter than to spay though. I had one male who came out of neutering like nothing ever happened. He healed up fast and he did extremely well. His neuter was only performed because he had a hernia in his testicles and we were concerned he was in pain from it. On the other side of it, I've read of pet owners having to deal with infections with the sutures, or their chinchillas not eating after surgery. Requiring hand feeding, which sometimes worked, sometimes didn't. Depending on the problem, some chins did survive because their owners acted quickly, some didn't.
If the baby is nursing and the baby's tummy is full, then the mother has milk. If she doesn't have milk, babies can become a little volatile, attacking mom or chasing her around the cage and nipping at her.
Their tails will curl up at the end if they are nursing fine as well, and when they are not receiving milk, their tails tend to lie down flat, bellies do not feel full. If you see the baby lying under the mother for long lengths of time, more than likely she does have milk though.
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Thanks for your help :) ive weighed baby and gone from 45g to 47g in 24hrs and she seems to be under mum a lot but also walking around following her ive halfed the cage so dad and mum are seperate he's not happy though im going to let him out for a play around see if that perks him up i feel sorry for him i will keep you updated. I'm going to try and sex the kit in a couple of days i tried today and think its a girl ;) but not sure. Kay
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Well got him out for a run and she went mad she wanted to be out aswell but what ive read you have to leave the mum in with baby is that right?
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Do not let them out at the same time. The mom can become pregnant again.
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thanks i wont be letting them out together and ive read not to let mum out either, im just waiting now and hoping the baby is feeding its very stressfull i dont no how you breeders cope :)
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when do you think it will be ok for the mum to have exercise out of cage? thanks kay
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when can i let mum out for a run? soon as she heard usual time i let dad out for a run and she was wanting to be out what do you do then ?
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cum on im staying up really late in the uk here just to hear your answers ;)
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I usually check for messages at very inconsistent times.
There is no problem letting the female out for exercise just keep it short perhaps no longer than 30 minutes at a time on account of the kit. Have a good night and don't be so stressed. I know you had a bad experience recently but you might be surprised at how resilient animals can be.
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Thanks I'll try not to get stressed i will be happy when i no the baby is getting milk :)
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If the baby wasn't getting milk its weight would not increase like what you have been observing.
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ive weighed it tonight and 49gr now so added 4 in 48hrs i let the female out for a bit also she was eager to get out :)
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Excellent. Your chinchilla should be weaned in about 8-12 weeks. Next Thursday is probably a good time to give both the kit and mom a dust bath together.
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ok thanks the dad seems to be off his food hes ate some hay but doesnt look like hes eating the pellets :( i bought him some toys for his cage and let him see the mum and baby supervised of course as i no how quick the deed can be done he was out for a run o n his own (me there)for about half an hour and seemed ok then. I dont no wether to get him neutered or let him stay single im worried on both accounts dont no what to do for the best ::)
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I'm not sure what to do either. If he does not start eating at least half his normal diet in a couple of days you may need to hand feed to keep his digestive tract flowing but it's not something I've personally dealt with. I hope someone will comment soon. I do know that if he looses too much weight he will not be able to survive the surgery.
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Do you have mom and dad's cage pushed up beside each other so they are touching? This might help dad not feel so alone.
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no they are not side by side we've just had to do something quick and half the cage so mum n kit are in top and dad is in bottom i had him out tonight for an hour and actually tried him with syring (sorry about spelling) feed crushed pellets and warm boilid water he wasnt too bad had a bit of it then ran round the room he seems fine but i still dont think hes eating his pellets like he should he has been out with mam and i held the baby and he come over and seemed pleased kissing mam and having a good sniff of baby but had to really watch him incase any funny business :) not! i will try and sort two cages side by side thanks agein kay ;) oh and the baby has gained shes now 52grms ;)
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As long as he's eating at least half of his normal diet and his fecal output is normal I don't think it's necessary to hand feed just yet. And when I mean half of his diet that includes hay. That's not really a magic number but a rule of thumb. What you want to prevent is constipation and a condition called GI stasis from not having enough substance for the bowels to work on and keep their balance of microbes required for digestion. You can tell by watching his daily droppings. If they get really small and hard or become non-existent then you know there's a problem. Having him in a separate cage will make it easier to keep track.
You can expect a sharply decreased appetite for the next few days which is normal for a chinchilla that has been moved to a new place and is stressed. If he loosing weight quickly (that would be around 10 grams per day for three or more days in a row) afterwards then you may need intervention OR if he stops eating altogether. That is worst case but I'm hoping he'll just get used to his new situation and his weight will go back up to normal and stabilize in less than a week. It's been my experience that if the chinchilla is pooping then it is eating and that its weight is the most important indicator of overall food consumption. If his weight is steady over a 7 day average then you have nothing to worry about. I recommend you weigh him and keep track of how much weight he is loosing every 3 days. He is going to loose some at first. He can probably safely loose up to 20% if he started out being healthy. This was my experience with a chin that had tooth problems that I kept track of for months. After 20% was lost I took him to the vet and he survived anesthesia for the exam without any problems. There was a breeder who I remember saying that 30% is usually when you know they are sick enough to need veterinary aid. I took mine in when he stopped eating and they prescribed a powdered recovery diet during a three day wait until he could get the exam.
By putting cages side by side that really should help as well. I hope this turns around soon.
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Hi i let him out for about 3/4 hour last night with his dust bath and he's pooing loads :) so he must be eating something he loves his hay but his pellets dont seem to be going down though, I will keep you posted and weigh him daily i weighed him last night so i will have more idea in a couple of days. On a more positive note baby and mum seem to be doing okay the baby has gone up to 52grams last night so thats a relief :::grins:: Thank you for your help you have been brilliant ;) oh I'm looking for a double cage to buy so he can be next to them in the same cage but seperated if you no what i mean, bye for now :)
Kay
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Something else I just thought of....Chinchillas like to eat what smells good. If the same pellets have been his cage for awhile they have probably lost their smell. Try replacing them with some fresh pellets and see if he eats them better.
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Hi thanks for advice but i put fresh hay and pellets in daily, i let him out tonight again for a good hour loads of poos so i think he must be eating let mum out with him he seeemed fine just havnt seen him eat his pellets maybe hesz eating them when im not about, I dont no whether to gethim neutered or just put him in a cage next to mum and baby i just dont no whether to risk the operation for him to be with mother and baby im pretty sure its a girl ;) i will double check when a bit bigger. She is now 55 grams so put on ten in four days is that good? thanks again Kay :)
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::silly:: This must be your first litter. The best and funniest times will be over the next month. Your kit will jump around in a rather odd manner we call "pop-corning" You'll know as soon as you see it. I have a video on my site where you can see one ... they are soooo cute when they do that. http://www.luvnchins.com/VideoChinchillaAntics.html
Mom and dad must be kept separated for 10 days ... this is the time when she can easily (but dangerously get pregnant again) ... on day 10 (this is also when mom and kit/kits get their first dust bath since birth) Daddy can rejoin mom, if she will let him. Some will and some will not. I have one chin-mom that will welcome dad back if she has only female kits ... if she has any male kits in the litter she will not allow him back until the kits are weaned and in another cage. This is the only one that does it that way. Other chin moms welcome dad and some flat refuse to let him back as long as she is nursing the kits and they are in the cage with her. I have found (over many years) if you will let mom out for some R&R (rest and relaxation) from the kits on a daily basis, she seems to be much better with the kits. Also, during mom's 'free play time' I let dad in with the kits. This keeps his scent in the cage and on the kits and will usually assure mom's willingness to let dad return after the 10 day separation time. It is a must to keep a close eye on daddy and the kits while daddy is in the cage and momma is out playing. It is very, very rare, but has been known to happen, that the dad will kill the kits, especially the male ones. Usually daddy becomes a great helping hand to momma. He will snuggle with and help clean the kits. I have one pair that the kits will run to momma to be fed, but as soon as they finish eating, dad takes over and cleans, plays with and snuggles with the kits while momma then enjoys her quiet time on another shelf. Remember, it can go many different ways ... every chin and every chin couple are unique! Even the same pair may be different with each different litter.
There is a huge difference in "ability to do" and a "healthy idea to do" something ... with chins as well as it is with humans. A male chinchilla has the 'ability to' impregnate a female chinchilla at the tender age of 10 weeks old. Of course, the female may kill him for even attempting it. A female chinchilla has the 'ability to' get pregnant at 3 months of age, but she is not developed enough or large enough to safely deliver the kits and usually, both little momma and all kits perish. Chinchillas have no boundaries when it comes to reproducing ... within or out side the immediately family. Inbreeding is not a good or healthy practice ... soooooo ... make sure if you have a male kit, that he is in his own cage before 10 weeks of age and that the female kits are in their own cage before they turn 3 months old.
Now, lets get to the cages and housing different chins together. Two females alone usually work out, but not always. Two males alone usually work out, but not always. One of the 'not always' is when two females are housed together and one has a litter. Sometimes they help with the litter, other times they may kill the litter. You never know for sure. The main 'not always' can turn into 'an almost never' when it comes to housing two males together when there is a female in the same room or even the same level in the house. Why? Mother Nature calls it 'survival of the fittest'. Two males may get along for a long time, but, usually there will come a day when there is a female in season within sniffing distance ... she may be all the way across the room or even in another room ... but, males have been know to fight to the death for the possibility of breeding that female. They may never get the chance ... she's in another cage ... but they will fight for the right to be the one that will have that chance. I found this out in a very hard way ... a father and son were housed together for almost a year, then one of the females went into season ... the males fought, both were in bad shape, but I came very close to losing the son. I can not get to the picture of the son, due to computer problems right not, but believe me, I sat and cried when I saw him. There may be a picture on one of the older threads with a story about them.
42 grams is not a bad weight for a newborn kit ... it is in the upper part of normal range. I have had several kits live that weighed 21 grams at birth. Then there was the brother and sister born at the same time in a superfoetation situation. A female born weighing 18 grams lived ... her brother was 52 grams. Quite a site side by side. Both conceived at different times, but born on the same day. It was a struggle for the little female, but she had a good mom and a loving brother that allowed mom to give her the most attention.
As bad as this may sound, a momma chin usually knows when there is something wrong with a kit and that he will probably not survive. Again, Mother Nature takes over. Momma chin will often abandon a kit and move her other kits to the far side of the cage to care for them if there is something wrong with the kit or if she does not have enough milk for all of the kits (such as in a large litter of 4 to 6 kits). This leaves the kit to die from getting chilled or from lack of nourishment. There are also times a momma will kill one before she will allow it to suffer very long. This is an instinct chinchillas are born with, it is not being mean or cruel, but the only way she can keep the remaining kit/kits alive and healthy. It is nature's way of allowing the healthy to survive and those that would suffer, not to suffer any more than necessary.
Chinchillas are shall we say 'well endowed' and have been known to mate when cages are less than 3" apart, so keep them close enough to keep their scents of each other and far enough away to play it safe. :) This is for the cage you have any male chins in that is close to a female's cage.
If daddy is not eating good, make him special treats made of fresh hay (Alfalfa if it's available) ground almost to a powder in your blender (let the dust settle before opening the top of the blender), mixed with a little bit of water and a drop or two of apple juice ... just enough to make it hold together and shape them in little football shapes ... about the size of a raisin. Keep in an air tight container in the refrigerate and give him one or two at a time. During this time give him your attention 100% ... he may be feeling a bit left out with all the attention going to mom and her new kit. Be sure he gets his needed attention also. ::nod::
Hope this has helped.
::wave:: Jo Ann
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Thanks jo ann thats a great help :) the thing i'm worried about the most is what to do with dad do i get him neutered or keep him seperate cage next to mums and daughter, and if i put him back in the top of the cage with mam after 10 days will he be ok as it is only half the size what they are both used to (i halved the cage so mum was whith baby in a smaller cage just one shelf 3" from floor so both mum n baby can get on) ? Thanks again for the great advice.
Kay
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aww love the video soo cute ;)
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i'm worried about the most is what to do with dad do i get him neutered or keep him seperate cage next to mums and daughter, and if i put him back in the top of the cage with mam after 10 days will he be ok as it is only half the size what they are both used to (i halved the cage so mum was whith baby in a smaller cage just one shelf 3" from floor so both mum n baby can get on) ? advice anyone please :)
Kay
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JoAnn mentioned that if you don't separate the cages at least 3" apart you can't prevent breeding through the bars of the cage. If you've ever observed the male cleaning himself you'll understand how that is possible.
IMO the best solution is to have separate cages and to pair the male with another male instead of having him neutered as long as his weight is okay. You can read more about cages and requirements here:
http://www.chinclub.net/qna/mojofaq.cgi?cat=housing (http://www.chinclub.net/qna/mojofaq.cgi?cat=housing)
Regarding the shelf - I'm not sure. As long as it's sturdy (and doesn't risk crushing the other chinchilla if the female lands on top of it) and does not prevent nursing I don't think it's going to be a problem.
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thanks i can't pair him with another male as ive been told they may fight with 2 females in the same room (now where else for them to go) i think the best thing allround is to get him neutered then he can hopefully go back in with mother and daughter and be happy again ive phoned around and got a vet that specialises in chinchillas in another town but not too far away we go 10.30 am so wish me lots of luck im quite stressed atout it :(
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Sounds good. I recommend that you ask for a recovery diet such as Oxbow Critical Care and know how to use it and make sure you have feeding syringes on hand. A good vet should supply you with a way to hand feed. It is better than using wet pellets. I know that some owners loose their chinchillas because they are not watching for anorexia after the surgery. It is common but still might not be a problem for you. Also I recommend scrubbing the male's cage using bleach (of course never use bleach in the same room with a chinchilla) to make it as clean as possible before you put him back in after the surgery and do what you can to minimize contact with food dust and particles on the floor of the cage. I'll be praying for you.
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Thanks again :) chico came out of the operation great I put him in the bottom half of the cage on some fleece and he started eating his hay im not getting him out for a run tonight and ive took out his climbing things (he still has wooden toys to chew) the vet gave me something for the pain I asked for some critical care and she said I shouldn't need it and call her if hes not eating tomorrow but hopefully hel be fine fingers crossed im soo pleased he came out of the operation now just want him back to normal quickly as poss I will keep you posted.
Kay.
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I am so glad to hear that. Thanks for the update.
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Hi baby is now 70gr and mum is eating and drinking well :) chico the dad had his operation on Tuesday he was alert and looked like normal when I picked him up he's pooing fine but doesn't seem to be eating many of his pellets, he seemed to go off his pellets just before lucy gave birth hes heating hay and the half of bitesize shredded wheat, ive been giving him his pain relief twice a day, do I need to mix his pellets with water and try feeding him that way? when do you think its ok to let him out for a play?
Kay
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do you think he's got bored with these pellets and should I try buying some different and mixing them in with his old to see if its them he;s gone off or just mite be all the upheaval he's had? thanks kay
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As long as he's eating hay and his fecal output seems to be normal (is not small and hard or scant) I wouldn't worry too much about it. The trauma from the surgery and possibly the medications can cause him to eat less. If you notice constipation you can try supplementing with mashed pellets but I still recommend Critical Care or something like it if that happens, and definitely contact the vet if that happens.
As far as the pellets themselves changing them now can potentially make the problem worse and is best done when the chinchilla is healthy. As far as letting him out I found this article that you might find helpful:
http://chinchillachronicles.com/chinchilla_castration.html
(http://chinchillachronicles.com/chinchilla_castration.html)
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::silly:: Chinchillas do not respond to surgery well at all. :::((( There are so many different complications that can happen. :-\ The only way I would put one of mine through surgery would be IF that little one's life were at stake and there were no other possible options that would save it's life. Over the pas 20+ years, I have heard more chinchilla owners say they would never do it again ... usually because a 'complication' from the surgery or an after affect from it caused the little one to die.
Each of us has to decide for ourselves what chances we are willing to take with the life of these precious creatures. It is never an easy decision. One thing you might want to question your vet about is: "How many of these surgeries have you done? " and "What was the final outcome?" I would even ask if you could talk to some of the other chin owners that he had done surgery on their chinchillas. It's always best to be safe rather than sorry. A vet with a good surgical record on chinchillas should not refuse your request. If he does ... I would ask myself ... What does he have to hide?
Hope this helps.
::wave:: Jo Ann
PS Keep us posted!
I posted this before I realized you already had him neutered. I am not a vet, but I have had 20 + years with chinchillas. I can only give you my personal opinion as to what I would do ... according to the experiences I have had with chinchillas over the years. (I have had over 200 chinchillas at the same time over many years.) I always found it a good thing to use the Critical Care and/or acidophilus after a surgery or during an illness or injury. Do keep in mind the critical care and/or acidophilus needs to be kept refrigerated once it has been opened. And it needs to be given halfway between any doses of antibiotic or pain medication. Surgery and the pain medication and antibiotics work against a chin to have a normal digestive progress. The normal digestive system is a must for a chinchilla. Antibiotics will kill all bacteria ... the bad and the good ... the antibiotic does not know the difference in them. The 'good' bacteria is often called 'flora' and is necessary to properly digest the food. The good bacteria or 'flora' needs to be replinished on a regular basis, but can not be given at the same time or close to the same time as an antibiotic or the will cancel each other out and it will be as if they have been geting nothing. If the food is not being properly digested you will usually find smaller, dryer poops and they will continue to decrease in number. Because of this, the system becomes stopped-up and the chin feels 'full' and not hungry and will quit eating. Once this happens, it can cause some major problems. The chin can literally die of hunger because he thinks he fills 'full', when in reality, he is stopped up or constipated. Judge by the ammount of food he is eating on a daily basis, not just the poop at the bottom of the cage. Something to think about. You say the male is in the bottom half of the cage ... If you have your male in the bottom half of the cage and the female and her kit in the top half of the cage, unless you have a solid pan between the two levels, to catch the mom and kit's poop and pee ... much of the poop/feces you are seeing in the bottom is probably from the mom and the kit. Also, keeping his area clean is a must ... if there is no solid divider between the two levels ... the pee/urin from the mom and kit are contanimating the lower level.
I would give him Alfalfa hay at this time, he needs the extra nurishment it will provide him.
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Sorry to hear of the loss of a little one. A chin is a hard thing to lose at any age.
As for housing I would definitely consider separate cages until u know for sure the sexes and whether or not they will be compatible. I have 2 males and 2 females each in a separate cage but next to each other. they do talk to each other from cage to cage. Although its mostly the 2 youngest that seem to talk to each other more. Although the youngest will still start chatting when I am petting the mother.
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As long as he's eating hay and his fecal output seems to be normal (is not small and hard or scant) I wouldn't worry too much about it. The trauma from the surgery and possibly the medications can cause him to eat less. If you notice constipation you can try supplementing with mashed pellets but I still recommend Critical Care or something like it if that happens, and definitely contact the vet if that happens.
As far as the pellets themselves changing them now can potentially make the problem worse and is best done when the chinchilla is healthy. As far as letting him out I found this article that you might find helpful:
http://chinchillachronicles.com/chinchilla_castration.html
(http://chinchillachronicles.com/chinchilla_castration.html)
Thanks for reply he seemed a little better tonight seen him drinking his hay has defnitley been eaten he seemed to be going off his pellets even before the op, I will ask for some critical care if I think he's constipated and I will hold off changing the pellets mum seems to be eating n drinking plenty :) and baby is now 74gr :) just want dad back to normal :( I will keep you posted
Kay
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::silly:: Chinchillas do not respond to surgery well at all. :::((( There are so many different complications that can happen. :-\ The only way I would put one of mine through surgery would be IF that little one's life were at stake and there were no other possible options that would save it's life. Over the pas 20+ years, I have heard more chinchilla owners say they would never do it again ... usually because a 'complication' from the surgery or an after affect from it caused the little one to die.
Each of us has to decide for ourselves what chances we are willing to take with the life of these precious creatures. It is never an easy decision. One thing you might want to question your vet about is: "How many of these surgeries have you done? " and "What was the final outcome?" I would even ask if you could talk to some of the other chin owners that he had done surgery on their chinchillas. It's always best to be safe rather than sorry. A vet with a good surgical record on chinchillas should not refuse your request. If he does ... I would ask myself ... What does he have to hide?
Hope this helps.
::wave:: Jo Ann
PS Keep us posted!
I posted this before I realized you already had him neutered. I am not a vet, but I have had 20 + years with chinchillas. I can only give you my personal opinion as to what I would do ... according to the experiences I have had with chinchillas over the years. (I have had over 200 chinchillas at the same time over many years.) I always found it a good thing to use the Critical Care and/or acidophilus after a surgery or during an illness or injury. Do keep in mind the critical care and/or acidophilus needs to be kept refrigerated once it has been opened. And it needs to be given halfway between any doses of antibiotic or pain medication. Surgery and the pain medication and antibiotics work against a chin to have a normal digestive progress. The normal digestive system is a must for a chinchilla. Antibiotics will kill all bacteria ... the bad and the good ... the antibiotic does not know the difference in them. The 'good' bacteria is often called 'flora' and is necessary to properly digest the food. The good bacteria or 'flora' needs to be replinished on a regular basis, but can not be given at the same time or close to the same time as an antibiotic or the will cancel each other out and it will be as if they have been geting nothing. If the food is not being properly digested you will usually find smaller, dryer poops and they will continue to decrease in number. Because of this, the system becomes stopped-up and the chin feels 'full' and not hungry and will quit eating. Once this happens, it can cause some major problems. The chin can literally die of hunger because he thinks he fills 'full', when in reality, he is stopped up or constipated. Judge by the ammount of food he is eating on a daily basis, not just the poop at the bottom of the cage. Something to think about. You say the male is in the bottom half of the cage ... If you have your male in the bottom half of the cage and the female and her kit in the top half of the cage, unless you have a solid pan between the two levels, to catch the mom and kit's poop and pee ... much of the poop/feces you are seeing in the bottom is probably from the mom and the kit. Also, keeping his area clean is a must ... if there is no solid divider between the two levels ... the pee/urin from the mom and kit are contanimating the lower level.
I would give him Alfalfa hay at this time, he needs the extra nurishment it will provide him.
thanks for post I done a lot of research before I went ahead with his neutering got a very experienced vet who does chinchillas regularly also spoke to a few breeders who has neutered lots of their males and in there opinion is a lot safer these days touch wood :) he is in the bottom half of the cage for now with a nice clean comfortable fleece with wooden toys food and hay n water the cage is separated by a wood shelf so poo and wee can not land on him or go anywhere in his cage, I will do everything I can by the book and hopefully he well feel better in a couple of days but I will keep an eye on how much he's eating and get some critical care if need be.
I do think ive thought this through he was miserable as sin on his own and the baby is a girl so I couldn't of even got him a male for company so in my opinion it was the best option for him.
Kay
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Sorry to hear of the loss of a little one. A chin is a hard thing to lose at any age.
As for housing I would definitely consider separate cages until u know for sure the sexes and whether or not they will be compatible. I have 2 males and 2 females each in a separate cage but next to each other. they do talk to each other from cage to cage. Although its mostly the 2 youngest that seem to talk to each other more. Although the youngest will still start chatting when I am petting the mother.
Thanks for reply yes it was hard losing the baby it wasn't a bad weight either 42 gr :( they are in separate cages till male is ok to go in with female and baby girl :)
Kay
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Thanks for reply yes it was hard losing the baby it wasn't a bad weight either 42 gr :( they are in separate cages till male is ok to go in with female and baby girl :)
Kay
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even having a baby escaping is nerve wracking. You never know if you will find them alive. luckily When Bonnie escape Raisin barked and bonnie answered her mother's call allowing me to find her wedged between a computer. The next time she escaped I knew exactly where she was
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I would give him Alfalfa hay at this time, he needs the extra nourishment it will provide him.
thanks for post I done a lot of research before I went ahead with his neutering got a very experienced vet who does chinchillas regularly also spoke to a few breeders who has neutered lots of their males and in there opinion is a lot safer these days touch wood :) he is in the bottom half of the cage for now with a nice clean comfortable fleece with wooden toys food and hay n water the cage is separated by a wood shelf so poo and wee can not land on him or go anywhere in his cage, I will do everything I can by the book and hopefully he well feel better in a couple of days but I will keep an eye on how much he's eating and get some critical care if need be.
I do think ive thought this through he was miserable as sin on his own and the baby is a girl so I couldn't of even got him a male for company so in my opinion it was the best option for him.
Kay
Yes, things are much better with the vets and chinchillas now. When I first started, there were very few that knew that much about chinchillas, let alone did the surgery on them. Chins are very good about hiding their medical problems until it is almost to late ... but ... it sounds like your little one had a very knowledgeable vet to take good care of him and a very good "chin mom" (you) ... but ... I'd still give him the Critical Care if he were mine ... guess some of us ole folks are just set in our ways and like to stick with what works best for us. :2funny: As long as he is happy and healthy, nothing else matters. :::grins::
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I would give him Alfalfa hay at this time, he needs the extra nourishment it will provide him.
thanks for post I done a lot of research before I went ahead with his neutering got a very experienced vet who does chinchillas regularly also spoke to a few breeders who has neutered lots of their males and in there opinion is a lot safer these days touch wood :) he is in the bottom half of the cage for now with a nice clean comfortable fleece with wooden toys food and hay n water the cage is separated by a wood shelf so poo and wee can not land on him or go anywhere in his cage, I will do everything I can by the book and hopefully he well feel better in a couple of days but I will keep an eye on how much he's eating and get some critical care if need be.
I do think Ive thought this through he was miserable as sin on his own and the baby is a girl so I couldn't of even got him a male for company so in my opinion it was the best option for him.
Kay
Yes, things are much better with the vets and chinchillas now. When I first started, there were very few that knew that much about chinchillas, let alone did the surgery on them. Chins are very good about hiding their medical problems until it is almost to late ... but ... it sounds like your little one had a very knowledgeable vet to take good care of him and a very good "chin mom" (you) ... but ... I'd still give him the Critical Care if he were mine ... guess some of us ole folks are just set in our ways and like to stick with what works best for us. :2funny: As long as he is happy and healthy, nothing else matters. :::grins::
I'm feeding him the supreme science with a syringe what a carry on last night it got blocked and went all over he had some under his chin what I tried my best to get off with a baby wipe and a towel,he looked so sorry for himself when I put him back I ended up in tears, tried again today a bit more watered down was a bit better but I'm not liking it one bit he looks all wet under his chin by the time were finished dreading the next feed :( hes eating some hay on his own but still not liking his pellets when he was in with mum I noticed the pellets not going down as much and thought it might be her not eating with being close to the birth, then when I had to separate him he wasn't keen on the pellets and thought its because he's stressed being taken from Lucy the neutering itself he looks spot on its just this pellet carry on I'm still giving him his pain relief and read that sometimes their appetite decreases could it be that?
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The most important thing to watch for is output. If he isn't pooping or if the poop looks small and hard compared to normal then feeding is essential. Supplementing now is still a good idea to keep his weight up and normal. If he looses more than 20% of his normal weight it can make it difficult to heal and fight off infections. You can certainly expect decreased appetite until those surgical wounds heal. From my limited understanding I'm thinking 15 days after the surgery before it goes to normal. It does not take much stress to cause that.
As far as hand feeding goes one thing that can help is a coffee grinder and running the food through there. You can test it by dispensing it through the syringe and re-loading it, and running it through the grinder with the aim of making a process that will work consistently. (Although you may never totally eliminate occasional clogging) I've made treats out of oats with a coffee grinder and it works pretty good. I still recommend Oxbow Critical Care since it is easy to mix and will have a greater effect on his weight since it is more nutritionally dense but can clog too. However I've always been able to push it through by aiming the syringe away from the chinchilla and trying to clear the clog.
Making a mess is going to happen no matter what. I always had a damp cloth available to wipe and dab it off the best I could when I had to syringe feed my chinchilla then dried with a clean washcloth or paper towel. The best thing to do is learn from each experience and try to come with a system that works and it will become easier the more you do it. I found it much easier to do with two people and to have all the supplies ready beforehand with the goal of getting him out of the cage, fed, medicated, cleaned up, and back into the cage as quickly as possible (while still being safe and giving him all the time he needed to swallow it down). Some feedings went better than others and I felt that if he got at least 2/3 of the food and meds then it was successful. All in all it was no fun for the three days we did that.
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The most important thing to watch for is output. If he isn't pooping or if the poop looks small and hard compared to normal then feeding is essential. Supplementing now is still a good idea to keep his weight up and normal. If he looses more than 20% of his normal weight it can make it difficult to heal and fight off infections. You can certainly expect decreased appetite until those surgical wounds heal. From my limited understanding I'm thinking 15 days after the surgery before it goes to normal. It does not take much stress to cause that.
As far as hand feeding goes one thing that can help is a coffee grinder and running the food through there. You can test it by dispensing it through the syringe and re-loading it, and running it through the grinder with the aim of making a process that will work consistently. (Although you may never totally eliminate occasional clogging) I've made treats out of oats with a coffee grinder and it works pretty good. I still recommend Oxbow Critical Care since it is easy to mix and will have a greater effect on his weight since it is more nutritionally dense but can clog too. However I've always been able to push it through by aiming the syringe away from the chinchilla and trying to clear the clog.
Making a mess is going to happen no matter what. I always had a damp cloth available to wipe and dab it off the best I could when I had to syringe feed my chinchilla then dried with a clean washcloth or paper towel. The best thing to do is learn from each experience and try to come with a system that works and it will become easier the more you do it. I found it much easier to do with two people and to have all the supplies ready beforehand with the goal of getting him out of the cage, fed, medicated, cleaned up, and back into the cage as quickly as possible (while still being safe and giving him all the time he needed to swallow it down). Some feedings went better than others and I felt that if he got at least 2/3 of the food and meds then it was successful. All in all it was no fun for the three days we did that.
Thanks again for reply it did get better the more I fed him but still not nice, I also let him play out after I fed him was that wrong to do? his scar is barely visible and looks to be healing nicely, today I've been out of the house most of the day (could not be avoided) and when I went to let him out with the female he had plenty of poos but not the same as Lucy's he's were a lighter brown, he'd eaten some hay but hardly any pellets, Ive made up some supreme science (similar to critical care) and made them into balls and left them in a dish in his cage so he might eat it that way,I also gave him some infacol (for baby's wind) and massaged his stomach and when I put him back in his cage the poo was darker(normal colour) and the only way I can describe it about 4small poos stuck together he's also chewing a lot on his wooden toys I'm going to see how he is tomorrow if no better I will take him back to the vets :(
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As far as letting him out to play at this point I just don't know. That's a good question to ask your vet.
As far as massaging his stomach goes I strongly advise against that until at least 30 days after surgery unless the vet says it's okay or you may risk tearing things apart that are healing. Since you are not seeing signs of constipation I don't think there is a need for that at this time.
The lighter color of the poos and stickiness does indicate that things are not digesting as well as they should be but light brown is still okay. It could also be a side effect of the infacol.
When a chinchilla gets constipated the poo gets noticably smaller, about half the length of regular poo and noticeably darker and harder/dryer, like poo that has been laying in the cage for a day or two. If you're not seeing this you are probably okay but you still need to track his weight.
The color change can be explained by the stress he is going through. Very light or green is not and sloppy is not. There will be some variations in what it looks like through the day based on his level of activity. Before you go to the vet I recommend you call first and get his opinion on if your chinchilla should be seen. That is my non-expert recommendation anyway.
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::silly::
...the poo was darker(normal colour) and the only way I can describe it about 4small poos stuck together he's also chewing a lot on his wooden toys I'm going to see how he is tomorrow if no better I will take him back to the vets
The "4 small poos stuck together" ... with my past experience ... is either the beginning of a sign of constipation OR the first signs that the constipation is possibly breaking loose. I'm thinking, because of the discoloration of the earlier poo and the more normal looking latest poo that it is the latter of the two. Which is good ... just got to keep it moving. When the digestive system does not work properly, problems can pile up quickly. One lady I was helping with her chin's constipation, when it finally broke loose, he pooped a string of poos stuck end to end to each other that measured over 3 inches long. :blush2:
Making the little balls of the "Critical Care" or the homemade equilivant, is a good source of nutrition and fiber, plus it will help replenish the flora in his digestive system ... but ... be sure to use cold water or pydelite to moisten the 'formula' with to form the balls and remember to refrigerate in an airtight container those he is not having immediately ... offer them to him one or two at a time several times a day ... warmer temperatures (room) tend to kill the flora if they are left out in the air to long. If he will eat them this way, it is much better for you and him and much less stress and mess for both of you. Besides, chins like the idea of treats handed to them, than the idea that they are being force-fed.
I would check with the vet about allowing him out to play and what restrictions he might need. (Such as closer supervision than normal. Not allowing him above floor level - he might fall or jump and land on an object that would injure him. Making sure he and his mate do not get to active or get overheated.) You might want to have a chilled chin-chiller for him to go to and set on to cool off, should he get tired or to warm. Or a mason jar filled with ice, using a thightly closed metal lid, will give him cooler air right around it and will provide a little bit of water from the condensation that will form on the outside of the jar. I would watch out for him if he becomes agitated or fussy ... this is often a sign he needs to rest and/or you may even contact the vet. If this is not a normal attitude for him, it can become one, if, he is hurting or injured or sick. Chinchillas can often be a bit short-tempered when they do not feel well or are in pain.
At this time, I too, strongly advise against rubbing his tummy or any where near his surgery. He may appear to be healing on the outside, but it takes a bit longer to heal on the inside. When a human baby is constipated or has gas in his digestive trac, it will often help if it's mother will very gentally rub (with a downward motion) from the base of the neck, down the spine to just above the tail and repeat this over and over ... in the one direction only. I have done this with chins that have been injured or were ill and were having some signs of constipation ... it always seemed to help ... but ... ask your vet first.
::wave:: Keep us posted!
Jo Ann
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Thanks again for the great advice :) they all had a dust bath last night and chico (the dad) loved it the baby even had a go was brilliant to watch I just wish he'd eat his pellets >:( but seems lively enough he's eating his hay and I mite try the science select rolled up again he didn't show any interest last time and ive left the syringe feeding alone to see how he went. I will keep you posted if any change.
Kay
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give him some science selective through a syringe today and it is easier but his poop is def smaller I also found a lump on his neck and when checked my female she didn't have one >:( im thinking now something wrong is going on I don't no what to do but im thinking he might be really poorly :'(
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I recommend you call your vet and explain your findings.
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Yes I am going to make an appointment tomorrow :(
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Hi took chico to the vet she gave him a thorough examination the lump is were the injection went in when he had his neutering op and should just go down on its own, he's lost 100 grams in two weeks :( his poo is not right its brown rather than black and sometimes really small he's not eating his pellets just some hay he has no symtoms of teeth more like a partial blockage and when she put the thing (don't no what they call it) into his mouth she seen a bit of string like material at the back of his mouth so he's going back tomorrow to have a bit of gas to make him drowsy so she can have a good look she said his wound and stomach seems fine and healing well hopefully find out a bit more tomorrow will let you no.
Kay
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hi took Chico to the vet and she did ex rays and the good news is his teeth are perfect but his liver was slightly swollen could be down to not eaten properly she gave me some Zantac to give him and a stick to put in his wee to test for diabetes I moved him into a bigger cage next to the mother and baby so he can see them.
Kay
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Sounds like he's having a rough time. I've never heard of giving a chinchilla Zantac before.
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Sounds like he's having a rough time. I've never heard of giving a chinchilla Zantac before.
sorry ive spelt it wrong it is to settle his stomach and encourage him to eat :)
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Hi does anybody no when mother and baby can go into their normal sized cage? thanks kay
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Hi just an update on chins ;) mam and baby still seem to be doing well touch wood :) chico the dad is doing much better poos back to normal colour last night and been eating some pellets and hay still got a few weeks left before he can go back in with lucy and meg cant wait to get them together :::grins:: Thanks again kay
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I am so glad to hear you chinchilla is recovering. As far as the baby I remember that when I got my chinchilla, Kulu, at three months old, he was still pretty small (300g) and able to fit into places that an adult could not although he did well in my big cage although it took a couple of weeks for him to learn how to use the upper shelves. So I know 300g is safe. That's about all I know there.
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yes were still making progress with chico seems to be eating plenty and poo's big and dark like it should be ;) so relieved
Kay
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They are now all in together they snuggle up together :::grins:: so cute ::kiss99::
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That's great. Thanks for sharing that.