Chinchilla Community Forums
Chinchillas => Q & A => Topic started by: Pookahsmom on November 28, 2006, 12:40:01 PM
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Hi all, I am new here. We have had chins now for about 2 yrs. We got Loki last spring and he really seems to be quite tempermental at times. Our household is compromised of myself, hubby, 4 cats and 6 chins. Gizmo and his son are caged together as are Pookah and her kids. (They are now 4months old) Loki is by himself.
On Thanksgiving, we had 14 people over for dinner. My neice and nephew wanted to see the chins and were very excited. They are 10 and 12. Reaching into the other cages was uneventful and all let the human kids pet them. When it came to Loki however, I reached inside and all he did was bark and bark and bark! I have never seen him act like that.
The next morning, I went to say hi to him and was greeted not only with a bark again but a viscious bite. He latched on so hard he was stuck IN my finger! ::cry222::: He has since calmed down. He has bitten in the past and has even been known to "charge" like he is going to bite but doesn't. what is causing the behavior and what can I do about it? Your comment would sure be appreciated.
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Its not uncommon for chinchillas to get stressed by stangers. Thats why I have an office for people who come to buy chinchillas. I rarely let people into my breeding room.
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All chins are different. I have one that loves for people to come over. He will stand at the door and beg for anyone to pet him, but my other 2 hide in there houses until very one is gone.
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::shrug:: Out of 31 chinchillas, we have a "Loki" here too. His name is Pat. Pat barks, chirps and often charges when you put your hand in his cage for any reason! He does his flying out of nowhere thing and bites pretty hard, often right through your shirt even! It always surprises me though because you just don't expect it.
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There are days he is soooo gentle and even will groom my face, hands etc. Other days he is either "Cybil" or Dr Jekyle and Mr Hyde. Just wish we could read him better those days. I know it doesn't help that he is kept in the same room as the girls, but due to space we don't have much choice. Maybe next time we will just wheel his cage into the bedroom while company is there. I just don't want him to "feel" banished or punished.
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Our Cheech will sometimes do the same thing. What I do now to avoid the biting (and he has taken a chunk out of the end of my nose... everyone laughred at me) is when I go and see him I put my hand near the cage, a few inches away. If he's being friendly he hop on over and I'll either tickle him through the bars or open the cage to play with him. If he's in a 'Loki' mood he'll snarl as he runs to the side of the cage and try to bit me. Then I'll just leave him alone for a while unil he's in a better mood. I think that's the best way I've found to assess his behaviour. It only doesn't work if he's playing out and gets behind somewehre he's not supposed to go. I usually put my hands on the floor, palm up and he'll run to my hands. On a bad day he charges and bites... But I assume it's just because he's scared, so just try to minimalise stressful situations for that one. Maybe that will help. But I suppose that's what you get for naming a chin after the Norse god of mischief. ::)
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There are days he is soooo gentle and even will groom my face, hands etc. Other days he is either "Cybil" or Dr Jekyle and Mr Hyde. Just wish we could read him better those days. I know it doesn't help that he is kept in the same room as the girls, but due to space we don't have much choice. Maybe next time we will just wheel his cage into the bedroom while company is there. I just don't want him to "feel" banished or punished.
He may be getting "moody/grouchy" when the girls are in season and he is frustrated because he can't get to them. :blush2:
When you have company, moving him to a different room would probably make him feel safer and more secure rather than being punished.
Chins just do NOT like change or new people (as a rule) ... on the other hand, some seem to love everyone.
Each has his/her own personality, securities and insecurities ... we just have to respect that.
Try keeping a journal on when he is fussy ... are you wearing a different cologne? a different fabric? cooking a special food? been playing with another animal? upset about something yourself? t.v. or radio louder than normal? late feeding him? forgot his treat? past playtime? haven't spent as much time with him today as you usually do? Lots of things can trigger a chin's mood ... just like it does us.
It will be interesting to see the results. Chinchillas will often react to your mood.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Ooh, I just thought of something. Do you wash your hands before you go and see him? Maybe he thinks you tase nice. :::grins::
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yes, that could definitely be a factor. I find when I give out treats I tend to get "tasted" by the chins who get their treats last because my hands smell like the treats by that point
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That is sooo funnnny about the meaning of Loki. We didn't know it when we named him but later i did look it up on the internet. Pookah is also a mischief maker as the name means "shape shifter." So we acally have 2 that live up o their names!! :2funny:
Will try the journaling. AS we are having company this weekend too, will also try the moving to bedroom while they are here. As for the girls....well the little cradle robber! They are only 4 mos old! :blush2:
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There are days he is soooo gentle and even will groom my face, hands etc. Other days he is either "Cybil" or Dr Jekyle and Mr Hyde.
;D
Yip got me a couple like that. Sometimes it's something I've done, others it's a cage mate,they may have been comfy and not wanted to be disturb at that time, or their just not in the mood.
Last week I caught a hold of a tail that slipped though. I must have tugged the fur loose, as next day the top inch was cleaned off.
He will not jump out on my hands now to get out for his run, I have to coax and beg, the end up giving him and empty bath, and then letting him on the floor.
Funny things is, if I go down in the day time and open his door, and I just did, out he jumps. He knows full well it's not run time, I'm only going to love him up and put him back.
Try it tonight at run time and he barks and grumbles and just will not come out to me, cause he knows I have to catch him again. His cage is just out side the room door, because that's where he wants it.
If I even put him just inside the door, and go down during the day, he barks and barks as soon as he See's me.
Put him back outside the door and he's an little sweetheart.
Listen closely and they will tell you what's wrong, or what they want.
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You have to remember they have very good memories too. If you do something they don't like they will think you're likely to do it again.
When Cheech realises he can get underneath something, like the bed or the cabinet, even though we block them off he has been known to spend an entire playtime trying to get under one or both of them. About a week ago it was the bed. And he was trying everything... He eventually tried one tiny hole that I had missed and had to sqeeze himself sideways, then spin round, then wriggle a little to get in. I ran over and caught the base of his tail just in time. I pulled him out, plopped him on the bed and quickly covered the hole, but he wouldn't come near ne for the rest of the day. I got back into his favour with treats, but sometimes if I have to stop him doing something he's not suppoed to he'll hate me for the rest of the day.
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:2funny: I have a couple like that too. They will pout for hours if they don't get their way about something. Sometimes I think "this must be what having a toddler is like"
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As for the girls....well the little cradle robber! They are only 4 mos old!
::silly::Please keep in mind:
::silly:: A female chinchilla has the ability to get pregnant at 4 months of age, but is much to small/young to be carrying and delivering kits. :hugs:
::silly:: A male chinchilla has the ability to impregnant a female at the tender age of 10 weeks! ::gobananago::
::howdythere::
Jo Ann
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It's nice to hear people talk about their chinchillas that are tempermental. Sometimes I feel really alone and frustrated with my Ninja...it's two steps forward and one step back with chinnies like this. After 4 years we've made a lot of progress though and thinking back to his behaviour when we first got him....we've come a long way! Patience and understanding. Their lifespan is so long you have a lot of time to work with. ::nod::
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You are right on that one Joann. That is why we seperated pookah and gizmo from the kits at 7 weeks. That would have been around Sept 8-13th. However, we did not plan on Pookah coming into season so quick. The kits were seperated about 6 days when one morning I got up and Pookah and Gizmo's cage was just trashed! He was trying to "have his way" with her. I quick seperated them and got Gizmo to the play area so I could get his son out of the other cage and into Gizmo'z. Due to lack of cages, the girls stayed with their mom. However, I don't think my efforts were quick enough and we believe she is pregnant again. aaaagh :-[ Can we put Gizmo back in with her to help with raising the kits, or have they been seperated too long for it to work? Would the previous female kits interfere or harm the newborns if they were left with Mom?
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::silly::OK, let me see if I have this straight ...
Pooka is the adult female and the mate to Gizmo, the adult male.
When the kits belonging to them (2 girls & 1 boy) were 7 weeks old you separated them from Pooka (mom)...
Then when you put Gizmo back in with Pooka, she went in season about 6 days later ... and :oops:
Where is everyone now?
Pooka with two female chins? What age?
Gizmo with his son?
I would think about investing in some more cages a.s.a.p. ::nod::
Would the previous female kits interfere or harm the newborns if they were left with Mom?
This is possible ... depends on the chins: if they get jealous: and/or if they decide to fight for mom's milk. New kits would not have a chance if an older chin jumps them ... AND ... you have to think about mom protecting the kits ... she could do harm to the other females ... in the middle of this, the kits could get trampled. Sorry about the gloomy picture, but I'd rather paint one, than to have you see what you could see if it happens.
NOW ... let's go to the father and son sharing a cage ... when a female goes into season within smelling distance (they have a very good sense of smell), it does NOT matter if the female is their mate, their mom, their sister or their daughter ... the male's hormones get all out of whack and they will often fight, even to the death, over a female they can't even get to (regardless to the relationship to each other or to the female). It is called survival of the fittest.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Their lifespan is so long you have a lot of time to work with.
Well said, no need to rush things.
Yes Pookasmom, it's time for more cages. rofl
How many times do we go there. :2funny:
Gee Jo Ann you were going for a couple of doz last time if I remember correctly.
I was going to stop at 10 chins, then 20, now my limit is 30. :D
Yes if Mom is pregnant again you can put Dad back, but I would wait another week or so, just to make sure.
As this would be a breed back load her up with extra calcium and vit's.
The kits could get hurt by Dad chasing and mating Mom, so I'd leave the girls with Mom, and if I had to take the two boys [Dad&Son}to another room until you got more cages, sell the kits, or are ready to put Dad back with Mom.
The two daughters can stay in one cage, but the son will need his own.
Remember kits don't need a very big cage, a nice size carrier with a house in it will do fine.
I like to graduate my kits from smaller cages, so they don't get hurt, and they get used to being on their own.
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::silly::
Gee Jo Ann you were going for a couple of doz last time if I remember correctly.
::think::I'm missing something here ... ::think::
Unless you are talking about the cages I just got (2 dozen cages and 4 dozen trays. ::shrug:: ???
::wave::
Jo Ann
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::silly:: Confusion confusion! lol. ¥es, Popokah is still in the birthing cage with her daughters who are now 5 months old. Her son is in with Gizmo (dad) and they are a perfect mirror of each other. He got all his daddy's best qualities; mellow, laid back, and a sweet heart. No fur flying. The son is also 5 months old. Though he has tried to "have his way with dad", Gizmo has been patient so far and has been a trooper. Before his son was placed in the cage with him, when he was alone, he was on te portly side and didn't do too much. Now, he is te most active, alert and healthy I have seen him since his and Pook's "marriage". We will be calling and ordering another cage this week. Our last one was from Quality Cages and we really liked it.
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Unless you are talking about the cages I just got (2 dozen cages and 4 dozen trays.
Yes Jo Ann that's what I was referring too, splitting up the males and needing more cages.
I always have to have a few empties for that Dads when Mom delivers.
You can never have to many.
Pookahsmom,
If Dad seems better with the son in the cage with him, just keep a close eye, and I would make sure they were no where near the girls when the next heat comes.
Jo Ann posted a nasty picture of what could happen on another thread, maybe it's in her album?
It does get worse the more chins you have, I've found.
When I had just the one family of chins, my grays, they all seemed to get along fine.
The more I added , the more Territorial they all became.
I'd hate for you to find the little guy beaten up by his Dad, but you know your chins best.
With just a small number you should have a better chance of seeing changes and signs of aggression.
Good luck, and be careful.
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::silly::Hi Debbie,
That's one picture I won't put in the album ... I don't want to ::scaredspeachless:: anyone that is not expecting to see it. It is a picture of the son ... he and his father had been housed together for about 9 months, with no sign of fighting ... but once the son matured enough to make the father feel threatened in a breeding situation, the father attacked the son. Neither the father or son could get to the female in season, but they still fought over her. The son has since healed ,and the fur has grown back. ::nod:: I was lucky, that time, and will not put males together any more.
I did find where I posted a link to it. Warning! It is graphic!
If you are squeamish do not look, but for those who need to know what might/can happen when two males are left together ... sometimes this can happen ... www.luvnchins.com/ResultsFatherSonFemaleInSeason.jpg Sometimes it is worse, one will kill the other, or even worse, you loose both due to the injuries inflected by the other. :( Do NOT take the chance if you can not easily live with the out come.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Hi Deb and Joann a big thank you to both of you for your kindness, patience, understanding, concern and advice. The points are seriously well taken to heart. We ordered a new cage yesterday and it should arrive in about 2weeks. We figured out her due date according to the breeding calendar and she should be right around the New Years. Pookah will remain in her cage she is in and girls will get the new one. Not sure what we will do with Gizmo yet as I have read that he will help with the delivery by helping to keep them warm and with clean up. He was great for that the last time. When the cage arrives I think we will be setting it up in another bedroom so that the girls and pookah can have some privacy. The boys will stay in the dining room.
As for Pookah, all of the chins have been receiving sun drops vitamins, she gets her daily raisins, they have cuttlebones in the cages to chew and they get a mix of alfalfa (small handful) and timothy hay. Is there anything else we can be giving her to help her out??
We never intended to breed her back right away. If we knew then what we know now well... things would be different. I feel bad for her but there is nothing that can be done but to learn from the experience and NOT let it happen this next time around. We hope she doesn't have 3 again but she is starting to get fairly round. :-[
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With the vitamins make sure you check the exp. date. I was going to get some from a pet store one time and they expired 2 yrs ago.
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::silly::
Though he has tried to "have his way with dad", Gizmo has been patient so far and has been a trooper.
::)
When a male does that to another male or a female to a female, it's not a sexual thing ... it's trying to see who is going to be the dominate one/the alpha chin in the cage. The will also do it by fussing and going nose to nose.
I'll never forget when little Timmy, a five-week-old black velvet kit, decided he was going the be the "boss".
He fussed at his daddy, Storm, and Storm gave him a firm sounding chirp back.
Timmy sounded back, then Storm again.
The next time Timmy went nose to nose with Storm, and they exchanged chirps.
Then Timmy stood upright to his daddy and chirped again ...
Storm's response was to raise up a little and do the same, then ...
Timmy stood on his tiptoes and chirped again ...
Storm stood completely upright and chirped firmly ...
Timmy ran to his momma for safety. ::)
About the vitamins, keep in mind ... if you add vitamins to the water, you have no way of knowing how much they are actually getting (especially if there is more than one in the cage). Also, exposing vitamins to the light weakens the strength. I use a child's vitamin C (no sugar added) tablet as a treat.
Papaya and rose hips are also a good source of vitamins for chins, and hay for the nutrients.
Pookah will remain in her cage she is in and girls will get the new one.
Keep in mind that the girls could possibly hurt the new kit/kits. I have had a kit accept a foster kit and keep it warm, when even the adults would not accept it. (A Special Pair at: http://www.luvnchins.com/ASpecialPair.html ) But, I have more recently had an older sibling take out the eye of a new kit. You don't know which way it will go till it happens.
they have cuttlebones in the cages to chew and they get a mix of alfalfa (small handful) and timothy hay. Is there anything else we can be giving her to help her out??
Cuttlebones are great, always make sure you remove the holder (it's made of aluminum and they will often eat it), you might want to break it in pieces and ration it to them if you find it is getting dirty or sprayed with urine. ::)
They need hay in with them at all times ... it gives them nutrients, vitamins and fiber. When a chinchilla is sick, often a vet will take all food away and give them water and hay only ... to get their systems back where it needs to be. I always give alfalfa hay to my pregnant and nursing moms for this reason.
Don't worry about the mistake, we all make them ...
as long as we learn from our mistakes, then a mistake is acceptable ...
it's when we don't learn and we repeat it, that is not acceptable.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Oh rest assured, the girls will be in their own cage when it arrives and before Mom gives birth. They will be seperated. They all get as much hay as can fit in a manger and there is always leftovers which we remove to keep fresh. They do get a small handful though of the alfalfa everyday for extra roughage and is better quality. We are going to SLOWLY change them over to horse hay as I have read that it would be better than the Oxbow we have been getting. There are no pesticides, is home grown, and is a mix of Timothy, Orchard grass and alfalfa.
;)
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Don't worry about the mistake, we all make them ...
as long as we learn from our mistakes, then a mistake is acceptable ...
it's when we don't learn and we repeat it, that is not acceptable.
::thumbsup::
Sometimes your words give me goose bumps Jo Ann ::Lovehearts::
If I only had a dollar....... ;D
Isn't it all just so much fun though Pookasmom. One breed back shouldn't hurt, but like you I'd like to see her with a single this time. If she's keen on triplets she'll be glad for your help I'm sure
New years babies, I can't wait to hear, and am sure all will be fine.
Your chins seem to be in great hands. ::highfive::
Thanks for sharing, and the compliment :blush2:
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Well, yesterday we tried to put Gizmo in with Pookah to see what she would do while they were out to play. There was quite a bit of toe to toe standing and at one point Pook chased him and possiboy nipped. Fur flew. No injuries though thank goodness. Poor Gizmo sat and pouted behing the commode.....poor guy's feelings must be hurt. Guess we kept them seperated too loong. Will maybe attempt again in a few days.
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:) Well, the cage has arrived and Pookah is now on her own. We tried again to put Gizmo back in with her (more towards morning) and she immediately went after him again. Not just once mind you but she was persistant. I guess thy have been apart for too long. We seperated the kits back on Sept7 and then we saw Gizmo and Pook doing "the deed." This happened on Sept 13 and the 2 have been seperated since then. According to the gestation calendar, she is going to be due between Dec 27th and Jan1st.
I thought Chins mated for life??
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I thought Chins mated for life
They probebely do but that doesn't mean with each other.
Many chins have many mates in their life time.
In a ranch set up, you could have one male servicing many females that keep coming and going.
Some I guess you could, but they too can pee each other off.
It could be the time apart, maybe she blames him for someting. They never foreget.
Minds of their own.
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;)Lololol Deb I can hear her now grumbling and fussing at him sying "You did this to me!!! :2funny:
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::silly::
Pooka is the adult female and the mate to Gizmo, the adult male.
... Not sure what we will do with Gizmo yet as I have read that he will help with the delivery by helping to keep them warm and with clean up. He was great for that the last time. ...
::silly:: *Mom goes back into season as soon as she delivers ... mom and dad have to be separated for 10 days, or he will breed her again ... breed-backs are not good.*
Well, yesterday we tried to put Gizmo in with Pookah to see what she would do while they were out to play. There was quite a bit of toe to toe standing and at one point Pook chased him and possiboy nipped. Fur flew. No injuries though thank goodness. Poor Gizmo sat and pouted behing the commode.....poor guy's feelings must be hurt. Guess we kept them seperated too loong. Will maybe attempt again in a few days.
::silly:: *Pooka does not need to get upset or feel threatened ... she is to close to delivering. He should be restricted until the kits are 10 days old ... then do the re-introducing slowly ... mom can have a play-break each day while daddy kit-sets (With CLOSE SUPERVISION), leaving his scent in the cage and on the kits for mom to smell and get use to again. I would not put him in the cage with the kits until mom accepts him ... If she gets upset and they fight ... the kits could get trampled. *
... It could be the time apart, maybe she blames him for someting. They never foreget.
Minds of their own.
;) Lololol Deb I can hear her now grumbling and fussing at him sying "You did this to me!!! :2funny:
:( We have a chin we call "the widow-maker" ... she is just fine with her mate, until the kits are delivered. (She has a tendency to deliver early.) As soon as the kits are delivered ... she kills him.
She is a great mom and produces beautiful kits, so now, as soon as I know she is pregnant, I remove the male. Everything is fine ... she weans her kits, then she will let the male come home, but not till the kits are weaned and in their own cage. The only thing we can figure is that she is a very protective momma.
With all my chin families ... most of the moms will let the daddy back and he does help with the kits, but, if she becomes up-set when he is put back in the cage on day 10, I let him stay out, till the kits are gone. A protective mom that feels her kits are threatened, will usually fight the male and sometimes kill him to protect her kits ... but, sometimes the kits are trampled to death during the fight.
Even when the male is gone, I usually keep a 3" or 4" "T" shaped or "Y" shaped piece of PVC pipe in the cage for the kits to hide and play in. PVC pipe is the white pipe you see in the plumbing department. It is a special type of plastic ... the only one safe for chinchillas. They will chew on it, but it will only come off in a powder form, so it is not dangerous to a chin.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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I was looking for a recent post that Jamie said Chins mate for life.
So what exactly does that mean?
Am I wrong. :doh:
I've been wrong before ;D
Some do believe it means you can't change their mates.
I know a male can have many, and will take any new mate.
So does it mean you can not get a female to take on a new mate?
Or is it what it says, they CAN mate for life, meaning keep breeding and breeding.........
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I too have a tempermental Chin, his name is Sid. I've had him for two years and he's always adored me and vice versa. But, about 2 months ago I bought another young ebony, also male. I introduced them slowly, using all the tips I could find and after the first month they seemed fine together at playtime. But, now the progress seems to have gone backwards. They can't be in a cage together for more than 20 min. without Sid getting very fiesty and begging to be left alone. Also, when they're out running around together Sid will get very territorial after about an hour. He charges, he bites (very hard) and he growls at me. His behavior scared me at first because I had never seen him act that way. I now have both of them secluded from one another because Sid's behavior is so violent and unpredictable. What do I do? Do I start again from the beginning, try to re-introduce them? Or are some chins just incompatible?