Chinchilla Community Forums
Breeders => Breeding 101 => Topic started by: Abby W. on August 15, 2006, 04:41:50 PM
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My black velvet female is full term in her pregnancy, and she has seemed to be in active labor a couple of times over the past week or so. Last week she actually bled a little, but still no babies. I took her to the vet today and we found a kind of gooey brownish discharge coming fom her vaginal area. The vet was not sure but felt that she was experiencing a fetal re-absorption, but without an unltrasound she couldn't be sure. She listened for the kit's heartbeat but was unable to hear anything. We put her on antibiotics as a precaution, but I was holding her earlier and think I felt some kind movement. Does anyone have any idea what is going on??? Is it just wishful thinking that she may still have a live kit? She is continuing to act like an expectant mother, laying on her side and stretching a lot, cleaning her vaginal area frequently, etc. If she does have a live kit still could the antibiotics hurt it? Should I wait to administer them? Help!!!
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A chin can carry for 120, so how far along is full term? How many days now?
The brownish discharge is not good, but they have two uterus, so ya never know there could be one alive. I would think the vet would hear, but if he's not used to treating chins???
She will have to deliver what ever is left. If she's had a missed abortion, and is trying to reabsorb a fetus that is too big already, she will have to expell something soon.
I haven't had such a problem and hope others may be able to shed some light for you.
I would say make sure she's is drinking and eating, and wait, something has to happen, and I'm so hoping for the best for you both.
:hugs:
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Unfortunately, I don't know her conception date, but she is showing all the signs of a female about to deliver, and she is as big as a house. Plus I definitely felt movement as early as two weeks ago, so I would assume she would be close by now. I have been reading about superfoetation, is it possible for this to occur and then one of the fertiulized eggs to abort or undergo reabsorption while the other continues to develop properly? I was just checking her again and I am 99% sure I felt movement in her belly. Whatever is going on I wish she would hurry up and get on with it so I know what's happening! ::shrug::
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::silly::Hi Abby,
My black velvet female is full term in her pregnancy, and she has seemed to be in active labor a couple of times over the past week or so. Last week she actually bled a little, but still no babies. I took her to the vet today and we found a kind of gooey brownish discharge coming fom her vaginal area. The vet was not sure but felt that she was experiencing a fetal re-absorption, but without an unltrasound she couldn't be sure. She listened for the kit's heartbeat but was unable to hear anything.
:doh: Isn't this the same black velvet that you called me about that went into active labor on August 6th? I strongly suggested then, that if she did not deliver within 24 hours to have the vet check her out. And that if you saw any evidence of blood to take her in immediately and do what ever was necessary for her.
:-\ Did you have her do the ultrasound?
Abby, to be truthful, it sounds to me like you have already lost at least one kit, maybe more and will most likely loose the momma, too. I wish you had taken my advice on August 7th. :::(((
::wave::
Jo Ann [/i]
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Well, she did not go into labor at all after I spoke with you. She continued to eat and drink well, and have normal poops. She did not seem in distress at all. I did contact my vet by phone and she did say that she didn't feel I needed to bring Rebekkah in unless she seemed uncomfortable, was running a fever, or had changed her eating habits. Unfortunately, my vet does not have an ultrasound machine, and I don't know of a vet who does and would be willing to see a chin...
Rebekkah still seems to feel fine. I started her on antibiotics yesterday, and I have added acidophilus to her diet as well (several hours after the antibiotics, of course). And I felt movement again this morning, so I have to believe she has a live kit in there still. The vet did perform "a mini gynecological exam" and was able to observe the cervix open. So whatever she is going to deliver it should be soon. I hate to have a surgical procedure done if it's not necessary and would rather let nature take its course. Of course, if at any time Rebekkah seems like she is not feeling well or changes her behavior patterns I will do whatever needs to be done.
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::silly::Good luck. :-[
Is this an exotic pet vet? Is she familiar with taking care of chinchillas?
The brownish discharge is not good, but they have two uterus, so ya never know there could be one alive. I would think the vet would hear, but if he's not used to treating chins???
She will have to deliver what ever is left. If she's had a missed abortion, and is trying to reabsorb a fetus that is too big already, she will have to expell something soon...
I agree with Debbie, the full-term-dead kit is to big to absorb and she will have to expell something soon ... bones and fur do not absorb quickly ... if the kit has been dead a week or two and it was even close to full term, there is a mass of bones, fur and muscle attempting to be absorbed. Hopefully she can successfully expell them.
... she has seemed to be in active labor a couple of times over the past week or so. Last week she actually bled a little, but still no babies. I took her to the vet today and we found a kind of gooey brownish discharge coming fom her vaginal area. The vet was not sure but felt that she was experiencing a fetal re-absorption, but without an unltrasound she couldn't be sure...
Did she offer to do an x-ray to see if there is a second kit? I hope the remains of the dead kit are not blocking the horn or the second kit (the one you say you can feel still moving) will be blocked and drown in it's own fluid.
I have been reading about superfoetation, is it possible for this to occur and then one of the fertiulized eggs to abort or undergo reabsorption while the other continues to develop properly? I was just checking her again and I am 99% sure I felt movement in her belly. Whatever is going on I wish she would hurry up and get on with it so I know what's happening!
The only cases of superfoetation I am familiar with, once the contractions start and the full term kit is delivered, each and every time, the preemie kit is also delivered at the same time. The labor and delivery are hard on both mother and kit. Since she has been in and out of it at least a couple of times, I would not want to lay odds on a healthy delivery for mother or kit. But, with mother nature anything is possible, even if it is not probable.
::shrug::
How old is this black velvet?
::wave::
Jo Ann [/i]
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The black velvet female is about 16 months old, born in April 2005. The vet does have experience dealing with chinchillas, she is a veterinarian specializing in exotics. Unfortunately the clinic is a fairly small one and so they don't have some of the more expensive technology available at larger clinics. She did not originally ask for an X-ray but after consulting some of her own colleagues did call me back after the appt and ask me to come in to have one done if Rebekkah has any further trouble or fails to deliver something within the next 24 hours, which I will definitely do. I am keeping a VERY close eye on her (she is probably getting tired of the lack of privacy). All I can do for now I guess is keep my fingers crossed that mother nature will come through for us... ::shrug::
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I have seen one deliver 2 healthy kits followed by a cocooned remains of one.
I have my fingers crossed, mother nature is amazing.
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::silly:: Hi Abby,
She did not originally ask for an X-ray but after consulting some of her own colleagues did call me back after the appt and ask me to come in to have one done if Rebekkah has any further trouble or fails to deliver something within the next 24 hours, which I will definitely do.
We'll be keeping our fingers crossed and waiting till tomorrow to see which way it all goes ... looks like it is down to a 24 hour count down! :-[
Hi Debbie,
Glad to hear someone has see it happen ... now I feel a little more hopeful. ::nod::
Was the cocooned remains smaller or larger than the delivered kits? Do you know if it contained bones still intact sufficient to have been carried during the same time, or could it have been from a completely previous pregnancy?
::wave::
Jo Ann[/i]
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Was the cocooned remains smaller or larger than the delivered kits? Do you know if it contained bones still intact sufficient to have been carried during the same time, or could it have been from a completely previous pregnancy?
It was just a clump of fur and bones, but you could see the shape of the kit and even little arms and hands.
A solid mass though, just kind of empty. Seemed as though all the internals were absorbed, and the fur and bones expelled in a wrap.
The dame just left it in a corner, while she tended to the 2 kits.
Oh and yes much smaller, weighed 24 grams, the kits were both 50.
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Wow, that is pretty scary! I am a nervous wreck and watching her like a hawk. :-\ If nothing happens overnight I am going to take her for that x-ray tomorrow morning. I am really hoping she does not need surgery or anything. I would hate to see her go through that and I know it can be really dangerous for chins! I am encouraged though that you have seen it happen with a relatively happy ending though, Debbie. Thanks for the hope! :)
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::silly::Hi Debbie,
That almost sounds like a previous pregnancy that failed to deliver or abort, with the formed bones, limbs and fur still there and the internal organs gone. But, it could have been superfoetation, I guess ... that would be a good one to check with CA Chins about. The weight of the fur and bones being about 1/2 what each of the other two kits weighed almost sounds like it could have been bigger than they were, had it lived.
The cocoon, was it like a birth sack or just the fur swirled around the bones? Any fluid inside the cocoon? Sorry, folks, if this sounds gross, I'm wanting to learn about something I have never seen, but may see and want to know what it is, if it happens to one of mine, or to some one else's if they e-mail me with a similar problem.
Abby, we'll be watching for the results! I hope things work out for Rebekkah.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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That's OK It is good to learn new stuff! ::nod::
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Abby, I really hope that everything goes well. Are you still using the vets in Vienna? If so, you and I know they will do everything possible to help Rebekkah get through whatever she is going through. Lots of positive vibes sent your way!
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I have seen one deliver 2 healthy kits followed by a cocooned remains of one.
I have my fingers crossed, mother nature is amazing.
I believe Susan from AZChins had a rescue mother deliever 6 live babies and 1 mummified. I'll have to go search for the link. Mother nature is amazing. ::nod::
http://www.chinsandgliders.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8548&hl=7+babies
Found the link. :)
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::silly:: Hi OutbackChin, great to see you back on the forum ... you've been gone to long! ::nod::
Hi ChinchillaGrl06, Yep, mother nature can most definitely pull out total surprises! Let's hope this is one of them for Rebekkah.
6 kits in one litter ... that is a big litter. But, I do hear of some breeders that do have them that large. Did they all make it? Are litters that large normal for her chins?
::wave::
Jo Ann
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::silly:: Hi OutbackChin, great to see you back on the forum ... you've been gone to long! ::nod::
Hi ChinchillaGrl06, Yep, mother nature can most definitely pull out total surprises! Let's hope this is one of them for Rebekkah.
6 kits in one litter ... that is a big litter. But, I do hear of some breeders that do have them that large. Did they all make it? Are litters that large normal for her chins?
::wave::
Jo Ann
Now that I'm reading more carefully the link I posted. That is actually not the one I was thinking of. Susan had a rescue deliver 6 live kits and 1 mummified kit 7 total! I don't know how the mom could even move. I think 5/6 living kits survived. I'll ask her for an update.
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How is she doing today? Did you go for the x-ray? Watch closely for any signs of illness at all, watery eyes, labored breathing, coughing... If she trys to reabsorb a baby of that size she will very likely become septic. If this happens she will die. The antibiotics are good to try to ward that off but if she doesn't abort the baby she will have some problems.
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That almost sounds like a previous pregnancy that failed to deliver or abort, with the formed bones, limbs and fur still there and the internal organs gone. But, it could have been superfoetation, I guess
Ever see what poision does to a mouse? Kind of dries it up and leaves the other shell.
That's what I felt it was like at the time.
Jo Ann she did deliver on her due date, her second or 3 litter I believe, it was the only pair I had at the time. It came after the kits, and I first misstook it for the after birth.
A clump in a dark corner on the floor of the cage.When she expelled a smaller clump I took it out to investagate. By this time it had dried some, but yes it was in a sack slightly torn up, so I just pealed it back and could see the full figure of a kit. Dry as a bone, and just like all the insides had been sucked out of it. It seemed perfectly formed.
It was the only set of triplets from this pair ever, I just figured something was wrong with the 3d and mother nature took care of it, or it was to much for the dame in question.
The reason I'll never know, but believe it to be from the same litter.
I was on chin Singapore at the time with Betti C. and Chinster, they told me what it was, and what they knew about it at the time. Geez must have been 2000 ,maybe 2001.
I have never seen anything like it sense.
Yes fill us in, what did the xray show, we're all on pins and needles now
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Today I took Rebekkah to the vet for an X-ray and foudn two kits. Both were unfortunately positioned for a breach birth. That combined with the discharge we were seeing led the vet to do a C-section. At about 4:30 this afternoon the vet helped Rebekkah deliver two beautiful LIVE kits! They are a bit smaller than I would like but still not too underweight, 36 and 43 grams, a sapphire and a black velvet. Mom seems to be doing beautifully, though she was understandably freaked out when I met her back at the vet's office. She doesn't have milk yet, the vet gave her a shot of oxytocin to stimulate production. Because of the kits' weights I am going to hand feed them for a few days until momma's milk comes in. At first she didnt accept them and just stepped all over them, but after I got her calmed down a bit I replaced them and she at least let them lay under her. So we are all exhausted from a nerve-wracking day, but very hopeful for the future. Thanks so much for all the support you guys have given me! I am so glad I could report a happy ending to you all.
P.S. When the vet went into the uterus she found that the placental sacs had begun to tear away from the uterine wall, causing some bleeding and a (luckily) mild uterine infection. Antibiotics rest and supplements ought to have all three as good as new. :::grins::
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Way to go, ::wub::I'm so relieved, can't wait for the pics ::fruit::
Yes what a day.
So the vet felt they were full term?
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They were not full term but darn close. They are fully formed but their eyes are closed and they are unsteady on their feet. They will require some supplemental feeding and extra care for a little while, but should do just fine, barring any more complications. I do have a slight problem that I could use some help with, and that is Rebekkah is only attentive to them on an irregular basis. She has on several occassions allowed them to lay under her and try to nurse but then other times she has just tramped on them and ignored them. I don't know what to do to get her to act like a normal chin mom. I have been removing them from the cage when it seems like she's getting too excited, but I don't know if that is maybe making it harder for her to get used to them. Any ideas?
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Hi Abigail,
Princess had a c-section not to long ago and is doing great now. I did have to foster her live kit out to another mom and it has done really well, it is going to its new home in early Sept. Unfortunately the other one was dead inside of Princess.
As for milk production, if this ever happens again, ask the vet for the placenta, it is very important for mom to eat it to get her milk going. At this point I would get some Fenugreek ( it is a herb sold at health stores it will bring milk in right now ::nod::. Sprinkle some on her feed, mine loved it when I used it, and just like in humans when she has enough in her system she will start smelling like maple syrup. (when la leche told me I would smell like maple syrup I thought they were kidding, but man did I, and thank god my milk came in, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to nurse my youngest son.) It works just as well for chins, and is just as safe.
Good luck, and keep us posted as to how they are all doing.
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Julianne,
Thanks I will try the herbal route. I should have thought about the placenta. Honestly I was just so relieved that she came through the surgery alright, and with BOTH kits alive and well no less, it just didn't even cross my mind. I have been giving her 1/2 cranberry and 1/2 water, which she loves. As soon as we got home and I set her up in a temporary cage she gulped down a bunch of it. She seems to be gradually letting the kits nurse from her, though I don't think she is yet producing any milk. I have been feeding them a mixture of canned goat's milk, water, some nutri-cal, and some baby rice cereal every hour to keep their little tummies full. Hopefully, this will all be enough to tide them over until mom is producing milk and has settled into her new role. I will post pics for everyone in a few days. Thanks!
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:::grins:: I am glad the kits and mama chin are doing good. Not to many people would have done what was necessary to ensure a safe out come. ::nod::
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Abby, what a wonderful update...I thought of Rebekkah all night and hoped all had went well! Congrats on your new additions :)
Is it possible that you could maybe put one kit with another one of your nursing moms (one of them did only have one kit, right?) That way Rebekkah would only have one kit to take care of and maybe it won't be so overwhelming for her. Just a thought (also might help you not have to hand feed both of them).
Also, Rebekkah might calm down and be a great mom in a few days...she has had a rough couple of days and I am sure I would be freaked out to have two kits pawing at me to get attention and milk. Now that she is home, hopefully she will calm down.
Good luck and if you need anything, just let me know :)
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::silly:: ::silly:: ::silly::Fantastic! ::silly:: ::silly:: ::silly::
Mother nature needed some outside help and you got it for her!
In a breach position, they could not have made it on their own.
They are God's little miracles.
The birthweights are a little low, but acceptable ... especially under the circumstances! ::nod::
the vet went into the uterus she found that the placental sacs had begun to tear away from the uterine wall
Did she find a dead kit also, or was it the placental sacs tearing away from the uterine wall that caused the previous bleeding?
::wave::
Jo Ann
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No there were just the two kits. Prior to the surgery we were sure that one was dead and one was alive. I had felt kicking and movement in the womb, but then with the discharge we were sure that the other had died and was polluting her system. You can imagine the jig dance I did when the vet called to tell me both kits were alive and healthy! Their eyes are not open yet, I dont know if that is just because they are slightly premature or if I should try to open them. I will give them a few days or so and see if they open on their own, if not I guess I will go with the warm damp cloth and gentle prying. Unfortunately, Rebekkah managed to open one of her sutures overnight, so I running her back to the vet's office (again) to get that fixed this morning. The kits have both lost a little weight which concerns me. I will be stepping up the amount of formula they are getting and hopefully they will get moving in the right direction.
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::silly::Hi Abby,
It is normal for the kits to loose just a little weight the first day, but getting it back up is very important. As long as they do not continue to loose weight. Formula is good if that is all you have, but you do have two more nursing females. Chinchilla milk would be the best chance for them, hopefully one of the other moms will allow them to nurse.
Normally, if I have to foster one out, I put it with the natural kit/kits for a few minutes to get the scents crossed between them so mom will more readily accept the foster kit(s).
The one you have that has two kits, Cybil, that are scrappers, you might want to take them out and put the new kit/kits in for a few minutes several times a day in addition to the formula feedings.
Jamie only had one kit, if she will accept them you might try with her occasionally ... again removing her own several times a day, if she has enough milk.
Play Musical Kits until the new kits can match the size of the other kits and they can all be in at the same time.
The moms will probably need a good calcium supplement if they take on more than their own and you might consider giving Ocean Spray Cranberry Juice (not cocktail) mixed 1/2 and 1/2 with water to stimulate fluid intake for the moms to be able to produce more milk.
It is not unusual for preemie kits to be born with the eyes closed, but you want to get them open within the first 24 hours. I use a warm moist cloth and Neosporin (my good ole standby) and very gently pry them open. Keep checking to make sure they stay open. If they are left closed, the eyes will atrophe and would have to be removed.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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::silly::Hi Abby,
How is the progress with Mom and kits? :-[
No more stitches gone, I hope.
Weight gain on the kits?
Were you able to foster them out? ::)
Who got them? Cybil or Jamie? :-\
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Unfortunately, I have very sad news :(...Rebekkah had complications after her C-section, she ended up with a full intestinal "prolapse" on our way to the vets, despite our efforts to keep her calm and immobile. Her intestines had worked their way out through her sutures, so almost her entire tract was hanging out (sorry if I am grossing anyone out). We placed her in a very small carrier on newspaper so she wouldn't get anything stuck to her and she couldn't move around much. The vet did another emergency surgery on her to stitch her up but the trauma of the prolapse and all the commotion of the past 48 hours was just too much for her and she passed away ::sadtears:: She ate very well the night after her C-section and was friendly and alert, so at least I know she didn't spend all of her last hours feeling miserable. We were able to hold her and say goodbye when she died, so I feel sad but at peace with it.
On the happier side we do still have the kits, so I at least still have some part of her. Cybil has been fostering them, since her kit was the closest to weaning(and she is an AWESOME mom). I did things a little differently to get her smell on them because I had newspaper down in her cage and she had peed on it, so I didn't want to place the kits on that, and I didn't have anything else with her smell on it. So I wrapped Cybil snuggly in a towel and then placed the kits on either side of her and held them for about ten minutes like that, then tried them in a small carrier cage together. There was some initial hesitation on Cybil's part, but I snuggled them up underneath her to nurse, and she seems to have accepted them as her own. They are nursing like crazy and sleeping under her just like normal kits. As of this morning they are both up 2 grams from yesterday evening. She has accepted them so well that when I tried to rotate her biological kit in for a little mom time Cybil peed on her! So I am still hand feeding a kit, but this one is almost one month old, and had already been eating a good amount of solid food prior to separation. So milk feeding is being done about every 5 hours, and I am leaving alfalfa hay and a small amount of pellets in her cage along with a bottle of the milk for her. So far she has no interest in the water bottle but has taken to the syringe feeding whole heartedly.
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::sadtears:: Very sad i just lost my chinnie too, Rebekkah will be deeply missed. :'( Very cool that you still have a kit, She will be very much loved! ::nod::
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::silly:: Hi Abby,
I hate to hear you lost Rebekkah, but she is in chinnie heaven and no longer in pain or under stress. You do have two of her beautiful kits to remind you of her, at least they can console you and you them.
Glad to hear Cybil has taken the two kits, but her own kit was only 3 1/2 weeks old, that's awful young to be permanently removing a kit from her mom. How long was she away from Cybil before you tried to put it back in with her? Why didn't you put the new kits with Cybil's kit to get Cybil to accept all three of them? :-\
How are all the kits doing now? Rebekkah's 2? ::silly:: ::silly:: Cybil's 1? ::silly:: and Jamie's 1? ::silly::
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Jo Ann,
Yeah, I did try to put all three kits together but Cybil's kit, Paige, got a little aggressive with them, and I am terrified she might hurt them. I am bottle feeding Paige which she seems to be doing well with. Paige was only away from her mother for a couple of hours (2-3) before I tried putting her back with Mom, but by then Cybil had already bonded with the new kits and rejected Paige. Paige was already eating a fair amount of solid food though, and she is continuing to gain weight, so I feel confident she will be ok. The orphaned kits are doing OK, the sapphire on ehas gained a fair amount of weight, but the little standard kit has actually lost a little bit more. I am taking the larger kit out for an hour several times a day to let the standard have some time with Mom. I am also supplementing her with goat's milk. Hopefully she will not lose anymore ground. the standard's eyes are starting to open up, so that is a good sign. Jamie and her kit are still doing beautifully. Jamie took her first bath since delivery yesterday and boy was she happy. Her kit, Andy, is almost to 100 grams and a total handful.
In addition, Pepper had two beautiful beige kits on August 15, a boy and a girl. And they are doing great as well. While I am sad that we lost Rebekkah, I do feel pretty optimistic about her kits and the way things are going with them. Thank you so much for your support.
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::silly:: Hi Abby,
It's easiest to answer in a different color. :blush2:
...Yeah, I did try to put all three kits together but Cybil's kit, Paige, got a little aggressive with them, and I am terrified she might hurt them. I am bottle feeding Paige which she seems to be doing well with. Paige was only away from her mother for a couple of hours (2-3) before I tried putting her back with Mom, but by then Cybil had already bonded with the new kits and rejected Paige. Paige was already eating a fair amount of solid food though, and she is continuing to gain weight, so I feel confident she will be ok.
That's very unusual, especially in that short of a period of time. If her kit was pestering the little ones, she could have been protecting them rather than rejecting her. She should make a good foster mom for the future.
The orphaned kits are doing OK, the sapphire on ehas gained a fair amount of weight, but the little standard kit has actually lost a little bit more. I am taking the larger kit out for an hour several times a day to let the standard have some time with Mom. I am also supplementing her with goat's milk. Hopefully she will not lose anymore ground.
You might consider supplementing the larger kit with the goat's milk and keep her tummy full so the smaller one can have the natural chinchilla milk, which she needs more than the larger kit.
...the standard's eyes are starting to open up, so that is a good sign.
::silly::...It is not unusual for preemie kits to be born with the eyes closed, but you want to get them open within the first 24 hours. I use a warm moist cloth and Neosporin (my good ole standby) and very gently pry them open. Keep checking to make sure they stay open. If they are left closed, the eyes will atrophy and would have to be removed.[/color]
Jamie and her kit are still doing beautifully. Jamie took her first bath since delivery yesterday and boy was she happy. Her kit, Andy, is almost to 100 grams and a total handful. Great, I can't wait to see her. Sounds like her son is just like her.
In addition, Pepper had two beautiful beige kits on August 15, a boy and a girl. And they are doing great as well.
Congratulations, Pepper! They are beautiful kits ... I saw them on your web site.
While I am sad that we lost Rebekkah, I do feel pretty optimistic about her kits and the way things are going with them. Thank you so much for your support.
That's what we are here for.
Rebekkah was a black velvet/sapphire carrier, wasn't she? What was her mate?
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Thanks for the info on opening the kits' eyes. I was thinking I might try a very weak solution of boric acid like people sometimes do with kittens or puppies, but I will give the neosporin thing a try first. I'll let you know how it goes.
Rebekkah's mate Isaac is a sapphire male. So we ended up with a sapphire kit and a standard sapphire-carrier. I am worried about the standard kit and giving her LOTS of extra care and attention.
Jo Ann, I will send you a more recent pic of Jamie. She is doing great!
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::silly:: Hi Abby,
I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's not to late to save the eyes, ::wub:: that's why I mentioned it on the 18th. Do both kits have their eyes closed, or just the one? The reason I like the Neosporin is because it keeps the tissues soft and moist, which helps keep them from going back together, as well as doing the job of a topical antibiotic.
I had one kit the parents kept hid from me when it was hurt, and when I did see and tried to get, it I got sprayed by mom and nipped by dad trying to get it out, we're still up in the air as to if we are going to have to have the eye removed or not. The vet thinks we may have caught it in time. The fur had it matted closed.
I'd love to see pictures of Rebekkah's kits, also. I think I've seen all the kits born recently, they are all up on your site, aren't they? It will be good to see Jamie again, she is such a sweetie. Her mom, Juliet, is pregnant again. She and Little Buster give me about two litters a year, but Jamie and Janice were their first litter. :-[ They were also the ones that tore one of her teats off fighting over milk at two days old, and left her with only one side to produce milk. Then they had to be fostered to Eileen till they were weaned.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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::silly::Hi Abby,
Just wondering how the kit's eyes are doing. Did you get them open? Are they OK?
How is Cybil's kit doing that you had to wean so early? Who is she staying with?
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Jo Ann,
The kits eyes are open and seem to be just fine. They are both navigating around pretty well. The little standard kit is still not out of the woods yet. She is gaining weight VERY slowly. I have been syringe feeding her almost every thirty minutes and she still isn't gaining very well at all. She is a bit more active today than yesterday, so that is encouraging. but she is MUCH less mobile than her sibling. Not sure what else I can do. ::shrug:: I am giving her KMR, slightly watered down, with a little nutri-cal and some baby rice cereal mixed in. I have added those things very sparingly though because she seemed to have trouble handling the thicker mixture.
Everyone else is doing great! Andy, Jamie's kit, is a real handful! I actually witnessed my first chin tantrum courtesy of him. He was climbing on Jamie's head while she was eating and she nipped at him. He immediately ran to the back corner of the cage, jumped up and down like a rubber ball three times, squawked and stomped his feet. It was the funniest thing I have ever seen them do! rofl I wish I could have gotten it on tape for you all. I have just gotten a camcorder so I have to figure out to post video clips for everyone. Pepper's beige kits are growing like weeds, but still not very outgoing yet. They still spend most of their time under mom. Paige, Cybil's first kit is almost completely weaned. Though I have not yet been able to get her to drink from her water bottle. I added a small amount of cranberry juice to try to peak her interest, but no luck so far. She is still getting milk supplement twice a day plus alfalfa hay and a small amount of pellets which she very eagerly munches down. She is unfortunately in a cage by herself, none of the other mothers have kits big enough to be with her. But she is getting LOTS of extra attention from the family. She seems to have become quite a neighborhood attraction for the kids in the area, and seems to relish the attention.
Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions for how to promote weight gain more quickly in my little standard kit I would love any advice I can get. Thanks again!
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She wasn't mated with another velvet was she? They carry a lethal gene which will produce deformed or dead kits. These will be eaten by the mother at birth as they do in the wild to ward off predators. Any remaining kits or placentas will not naturally be aborted but will rot inside mum with fatal consequences, so if she was mated with another velvet get to the vet asap. Good luck!!
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No, she was a black velvet sapphire carrier and she was mated with a sapphire. My understanding with the lethal factor though is that it won't produce deformed kits, but those eggs that are velvet-velvet or white-white simply will not develop into viable embryos. Is this not the case? I would never put these two combinations together, just curious.
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This may be right but I was informed otherwise. Must read more about it. I am new to this but have been in touch with a lovely lady from a rescue centre here in New Zealand. I recently purchased 2 velvets (male & female) from someone who had them together for a year!! Lucy ended up giving birth 2 weeks ago. I couldn't work out why she was cleaning herself excessively so took some photos of her genitals and sent them to Sarah at Chinchilla Rescue. She recognized the signs from the photos and said she had delivered in the past 2 days. I took her for an ultrasound immediately but she's fine thank goodness. Having these 2 chins together was really stupid. Prior to this I had taken my black velvet in to be neutered to stop this happening again and ended up losing him. For some unexplained reason which I am still questioning, he chewed his stitches once he got home and also chewed through muscle to the point where his intestines spilled out. You can imagine my shock when I found him like this. I immediately rushed him to the emergency vet at 11 o'clock at night but he died the following day. I was devastated because he was such a gorgeous little guy. Still getting over it and spend a fair bit of time crying. Nobody seems to have any answers.
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::silly:: Abby,
... The little standard kit is still not out of the woods yet. She is gaining weight VERY slowly. I have been syringe feeding her almost every thirty minutes and she still isn't gaining very well at all. She is a bit more active today than yesterday, so that is encouraging. but she is MUCH less mobile than her sibling. Not sure what else I can do. ::shrug:: I am giving her KMR, slightly watered down, with a little nutri-cal and some baby rice cereal mixed in. I have added those things very sparingly though because she seemed to have trouble handling the thicker mixture. ...
Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions for how to promote weight gain more quickly in my little standard kit I would love any advice I can get. Thanks again!
Just repeating my suggestion from earlier:
::silly:: Hi Abby,
You might consider SUPPLEMENTing the LARGER KIT with the goat's milk and keep her tummy full so the smaller one can have the natural chinchilla milk, which she needs more than the larger kit.
::wave:: Jo Ann
By continuing to supplement the smaller kit, it is not hungry when it has the chance to get the mom's natural chinchilla milk.
Keep the Larger kit's tummy full of goat's milk so the larger one will leave the natural milk for the smaller kit that neededs it. :doh:
Paige, Cybil's first kit is almost completely weaned. Though I have not yet been able to get her to drink from her water bottle. I added a small amount of cranberry juice to try to peak her interest, but no luck so far. She is still getting milk supplement twice a day plus alfalfa hay and a small amount of pellets which she very eagerly munches down. She is unfortunately in a cage by herself, none of the other mothers have kits big enough to be with her.
If she is only getting fluids twice a day and not drinking from her waterbottle, you may soon have trouble with her urinary tract or dehydration. Keep pellets and hay in her cage at all times, please. Do you have a female that does not have any kits that will take her? She NEEDS the comfort of another chinchilla to eat, sleep, play with, be groomed by and to groom.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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The only other adult female I have that is unpaired is very large and kind of mean. I am really terrified of putting her with Paige. I don't know what else to do, all my other non-pregnant females are with males and then I have one unpaired male, and a pair of male cagemates. For now I guess she will have to settle for extra snuggling and attention from my husband and I. I may be able to get Jamie to take her in, now that Jamie's kit is bigger, still smaller than Paige, but not by much. I will try that this weekend.
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Hi Linda,
Nobody seems to have any answers.
If you mean why he chewed?
I have seen it many times.
It seems to be their way of dealing with an injury. Any discomfort relay. They will chew it, at it, and yes into it.
If it bothers them in any way, they will chew it.
I have a tail amputation years old, and I still have to keep the stump wrapped or she chews right into it.
She wore a collar for almost a year. Sometimes it's the only way to stop them from chewing a wound.
I'm so sorry you lost him like that. Must have been quite the shock.
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Hi Abigail,
My vet had never heard of that extent of chewing happening before and didn't suggest anything to prevent chewing when I picked Timmy up after his neuter. I got upset with them but they have said its unusual. I'm not so sure now. Even though they are exotics vets I'm not so sure how many chins they have actually operated on. Will investigate further. Thanks.
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::silly::Hi Linda,
Sorry to hear that you lost your little one.
I always go against surgery for a chin, unless his/her life will end without it. (Or a loss of unborn kits.) Chinchillas do not fair well with surgeries, mentally or physically. It is very stressful for them.
Chinchillas are relatively new to the pet world. Unless your exotic pet vet is familiar with caring for chinchillas, they will have lots of studying to do.
Chinchillas are like no other animal most vets, even exotic pet vets, have to contend with. Once their urinary and/or digestive systems shut down, it takes almost a miracle for the chin to survive. Just the stress of surgery can cause this to happen.
Chinchillas will chew away any dead or infected tissue ... your chin probably saw the stitches as dead tissue. I would think a collar should have been used to prevent the chewing.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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::silly:: Hi Abby,
The only other adult female I have that is unpaired is very large and kind of mean. I am really terrified of putting her with Paige. I don't know what else to do, all my other non-pregnant females are with males and then I have one unpaired male, and a pair of male cagemates. For now I guess she will have to settle for extra snuggling and attention from my husband and I. I may be able to get Jamie to take her in, now that Jamie's kit is bigger, still smaller than Paige, but not by much. I will try that this weekend.
I definitely would NOT put her with the mean female. I would not put her with males. BUT ... What would be wrong with taking a female out of breeding for two or three weeks to take care of Paige?
Regardless of who you put her with, they will have to be monitored closely to make sure they do not injure Paige and/or Paige does not injure the kit.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Jo Ann,
That is an awesome idea! I do have a violet wrap female who is pretty docile I can take her out and see if she'll take care of Paige. I feel kind of dumb for not having thought of that myself, but I guess that's the whole point of the forum. :blush2:
I finally have pics to post for everyone, I just have to figure out how to do it. I know I saw a post on it around here somewhere. So I am going to go read that and hopefully (knock on wood) I will technologically savvy enough to get some pics up for you guys.
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::silly::Hi Abby,
How are the two kits doing that belonged to Rebekkah that you gave to Paige's mom?
How is the little Paige doing? Did you find a foster mom to care for her and give her chinnie love?
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Jo Ann,
The sapphire kit is doing beautifully! Cybil is the BEST mother! I also got my violet wrap female to mother Paige. Though she is not lactating, Paige cuddles with her all day and grooms her. They are soooooooo cute! I will send you one of the pics I caught of them. :::grins::
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::silly::Very good! ::nod::
What about Rebekkah's other kit?
::wave::
Jo Ann
EDIT: Sorry, now I see on the other post that the second kit passed away. It was to hard for the little one, but now it's in chinnie heaven with Rebekkah, it's momma. A least it's sibling seems to be doing good.