Chinchilla Community Forums
Chinchillas => Health => Topic started by: jmrothermel on January 13, 2007, 10:07:16 AM
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Since yesterday he has been really withdrawn pretty much just staying in one spot, I've seen him eat a little hay, but no pellets, and he won't even come over to the scale for me to weigh him (which he usually loves because there is a little dust bath in it) and his eyes are only half open like he's kinda sleeping, but even when I wake him up he still stays like that!!!! He hasn't lost any weight up to yesterday, he was the same so if he did lose any it was overnight....literally
Don't worry, I'm not just posting here so you all can yell at me "GET HIM TO THE VET" I am on hold now with the vet trying to get in ASAP this morning. I just pray its not something he was masking and now its too late....
Please say a chinnie prayer for him that all is well. I will update after we get back.
Jacqui
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I am so sorry to hear of your boy's illness. I hope all is well, and I'll be praying for you both.
Please let us all know how things are after your visit.
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Good luck!
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Alright, heres how our trip went:
The vet did a stool sample and found that he has alot of hookworm eggs in his stool - no signs of Giardia - so he is on a dewormer medicine, she also said he has alot of bacteria in his stool, so she is wondering if he doesn't have some sort of infection going on, so to be safe she put him on an antibiotic, as well as some Bene-Bac to help replace the good bacteria he is loosing. She didn't have any critical care available, and now I don't know where to get it. He is not eating, so I'm really worried about that.
Does anyone know where on a Saturday at 2:00 in the afternoon I can get critical care, or the recipe for it?
Secondly, his female companion in the cage, does she have these things? She looks fine, and is acting fine, but now I'm worried!
Thanks!
Jacqui
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I don't know where you could get critical care...I would try other local clinics. If you can't find it my suggestion would be to grind up his normal pellets into a fine powder, mix it with water, a little grape pedialyte, and a small amoutn of nutri-cal. It should be about the consistency of oatmeal, so you cans uck it up into a syringe but it's not too watery. Then feed him that with a feeding syringe every couple of hours. Leave him regular food as well, and monitor if he eats any. Once he feels better he should start eating on his own.
Good luck!
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What medication is he on? I would think that his cagemate would need to be treated as well. Ask your vet about this.
As far as Critical Care goes I have only ever bought it at the vet's office. However I know you can order it directly from Oxbow, they are the company that makes it. Check their website I think it's oxbow.com You could have it send as quickly as possible even though it may cost you.
I'm sorry to hear he is sick and pray for a speedy & full recovery.
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He is on TMS Suspension antibiotic, Panacur for the worms.
Jacqui
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Sorry! The Oxbow site is www.oxbowhay.com and unfortunately critical care is not sold online I thought it used to be.
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::silly::Pedialyte will help hydrate him faster than regular water ... Gerber puts out a little single-serving 4 pack that is apple-flavored. Once pedialyte is opened, it is only good for 24 hours ... the single-servings save on waste.
Do not mix anything with the pedialyte.
Ocean Spray cranberry juice (not cocktail) mixed 1/2 and 1/2 with water can be used to coax him to drink more fluids.
An extra bottle of plain water is good to keep up at all times.
I make a "home-made critical care" ...
Healthy hand full of Alfalfa hay
2 Tablespoons chinchilla pellets (Mazuri, preferably)
Place in blender high-speed, until in a powder form.
Add: (found in health food store)
1 capsule acidophilus - Open and add to above.(Refrigerate after opening)
1 teaspoon Raw wheat germ (Refrigerate in airtight container)
1 teaspoon papaya powder (optional)
Mix. Store in an air-tight jar in the refrigerator.
Methods of feeding...
1) Mix with water and feed with syringe or glass eye dropper.
Just put a little at a time on his lips and let him take it down at his own speed.
2) Mix with Nutra Cal (cat/dog section of pet store)
about the size of a pea, making mini footballs the size of raisins.
He will probably eat these like a treat. (Refrigerate.)
3) Can be used as a supplement when you add whole raw oats.
Keep me posted!
::wave::
Jo Ann
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UPDATE: I couldnt get the mixture of the homemade CC into powder so I kept blending it and blending it, sifting sticks out, blending some more, and then I found out that when its on very high speed in the blender everything thats a fine powder flies to the top at the lid. So I blend it for 10 seconds, opened it slowly, tapped all the powder that accumulated on the lid, repeat, and after about 5 times I had enough powder to make a mixture. So I mixed it with pedialyte until it was thin enough to suck up in a syringe and was feeding it to him. At first he was hesitant trying to jump out of my hands and everything, but I kept talking to him telling him I was trying to help him and that he is going to be ok he needs to eat, and after about a minute he just sat in front of me on my desk with his little paws up on my one hand and I had the syringe in the other and he took about a good 10cc's of mixture from me that way. He was very patient and kept letting me squirt a little on his bottom lip he would eat it off, and then repeat. Even when he got messy he would let me wipe it off his chin and continue. Then after about 10cc's he started squirming and trying to jump away and run off so I took that as a hint that he had enough. While I had him with me for about 5 minutes I guess it was he pooped twice, so I'm glad for that he's not too empty - not enough to stop passing stool. So I will try to do this probably once an hour and then this afternoon around 5 weigh him again and see if he is doing any better. In two days he lost 20 grams, and Im hoping that he turns around now that we made a breakthrough with feeding, and he is on his medicine for 24 hours now. He will eat a piece of hay or a pellet here and there, but nothing like his appetite was before he was feeling bad.
Thank you Jo Ann for ALL your help, I fear he might not have come through this without your guidance. I'm feeling much better now that I got food into him and hope that he continues to progress in the right direction.
I will update again later after weighing around 5!
Jacqui
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As far as cranberry juice goes...............I have always thought you were supposed to give them CRANBERRY JUICE COCKTAIL since it is almost all cranberry juice. The regular cranberry juice has all kinds of other sugary juices mixed in with it I think. I have always given my chins the cocktail (including Mia) and been OK.
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Ocean Spray has a new cranberry juice out and its called OceanSpray Pure Cranberry. Its a tad expensive (but who wouldn't do anything for their chinny) but if you read the back the only ingredients are 100% Cranberry. Thats it. No sweetners, or juices, extracts, flavors, NOTHING. I got 32fl ounces yesterday - a small bottle - and it cost 4.00. But at least I knew it wouldn't hurt my chinny. And since there is nothing in it except cranberrys it considerably stronger than the cocktail, so I did 1/3 to 2/3 water. It says on the front 100% Pure Unsweetened Cranberry.
But hey, go figure, he didn't touch it. Oh well I would put 100 bottles in the cage full of 100 different things if I though for a second it would make him feel better. I'm so sad with him sick :::(((
I fed him again at 1 - an hour after the last time - and he only took 3cc's this time (or 3ml's depending how you look at it LOL - Being an ex nurse (now stay at home mom to kids and chinnys) I always use the cc version) So I figured he was still a little full from the 10 last time. At least I know his belly isn't empty.
Then as I was feeding him - yea heres how despirate I am to make sure he's ok - I start feeling really sick in my stomach - and I realize that its now after 1pm in the afternoon and all I've done all day is try to get him to eat, make sure he has his meds - tried to perfect the homemade CC recipe, etc., that I didn't even eat all day! I was at that point so hungry I felt sick, and everytime I felt my stomach growling I ignored it because I was taking care of him! LOL So needless to say, after that feeding I threw lunch in the oven, and now I'm almost ready to eat. Good thing the kids are visiting their grandparents this weekend, or I would be a really bad mom! :::grins::
I will update again later!
Thanks for all your help and good wishes for my baby.
Jacqui
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UPDATE: I've been feeding him every two hours throughout the day, and its going really well. He's still pooing up a storm, so thats good! Once though I did catch a glimpse of a worm in his poop, ewwwww. But at least I know he is getting them out of his little body, and thats what I want!
At his last weight at 9:30 tonight, he was up 14 grams from his weight earlier today. So hopefully with continued feedings and medication we're on the rebound here. Thanks for thinking of us!
Jacqui
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::silly::Fantastic! He had only gained 6 grams when you called me ... great to hear he has added 8 more grams to that! Continuing to poop is a must!
I have always thought you were supposed to give them CRANBERRY JUICE COCKTAIL since it is almost all cranberry juice. The regular cranberry juice has all kinds of other sugary juices mixed in with it I think. I have always given my chins the cocktail (including Mia) and been OK.
Joyce, I had forgotten about you giving Mia the cocktail instead of the juice ... I remember she did great on it, too. I was thinking of it the other way around and thinking the cocktail was the one with a mixture of juices. I haven't had to use it in quite a while ... I'll chalk it up to senility. rofl
Jacqui, I'll have to look for the Ocean Stray Pure Cranberry... don't think I've seen it before. I will see if any of my little ones will drink it ... if not, I'll try putting a tiny bit of Nutri-Cal in it to sweeten it a little ... they may not like it because it is so strong. Mixing it 1/3 to 2/3 water was a good idea.
Keep us posted!
::wave::
Jo Ann
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I hope he keeps getting better, my thoughts are with you guys
Julianne
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::silly:: How's your little one doing? Haven't heard from you for a few days.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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Jo Ann, he is doing well, I will be SURE to post an update today, I'm sorry I didn't get to it my son got hit in the head and had to for stitches, and my other son is having problems in school....so yea its been crazy here the past few days. I promise I will get to it today though!
Jacqui
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:oOh, my goodness! ... Definitely good reasons to stay off the computer for a time.
What with and how did your little one get hit in the head??? That can be very scary!
The other son having 'problems' in school ... grade-wise in general, acting out, being bullied or learning difficulty in a particular subject?
I grew up in a family of 5 kids ... one of us was always getting into something or having a problem with something ... nothing bad ... but anything multiplied by 5 can get to you. I often wonder how my parents kept their sanity. :blush2:
Try to look on the good side ... the kids were kind enough to wait for your chin-emergency to clear up. ::)
Hope all is calm for a little while for you. :)
::howdythere::
Jo Ann
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Jo Ann, he is acting out in school, and it's sudden and unexpected. And now he is doing it at home too. Its getting very frustrating just because I don't know where this behavior is coming from....
As for my little guy, he is doing WONDERFUL. He has been weaned off hand feedings and now eating all on his own. I am mixing a little CC with his food just because he lost so much weight the vet thought it would be beneficial to increase his caloric intake for awhile until he is back up to his original weight.
Other than that he is acting normal, his poops are normal now, and everything seems to be getting better! After only getting a 40% chance to live, I just am so amazed that we made it through this. Definately someone was looking out for him :)
I will keep you updated. Here's a picture of him peering at me wondering why I take so many pictures...LOL
(NOTE: For those who don't know this is not his ordinary cage, I put him in here while he was suffering from the worms since it was ALOT easier to boil/bleach plastic to disinfect from the worms then it is the pine shelves in his normal cage. He is now back in his regular cage.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/jmrothermel/Colt.jpg)
Jacqui
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He is Adorable.
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Aww. Bless. He looks adorable and I'm so glad he's much better.
I hope you can figure out how to help your son. Perhaps something he doesn't want to talk about and is finding other ways to express it? I'm studying psychology at the moment and although I am by no means an expert I would always be willing to help if I could.
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::silly::Hi Jacqui,
Just a thought ...
Sometimes we can't see the forrest for the trees ... especially when things are going crazy all around us.
You've been focused on your "As for my little guy" (your chin) who has been sick for over a week ... then your son that has a bad cut on his head ... with stitches ... trip to the hospital/doctors ...
Could another little someone be feeling ignored or pushed aside? ::)
At school, he is just one part of the whole class ... might he be acting out to try to get attention there?
Even if it's bad attention.
We often focus on the thing at hand that needs our immediate attention and inadvertently ignore something that needs just the "normal" attention, but is not getting it.
One time Bill and I were out for coffee and a friend of ours ask what we had been doing lately ...
Bill said, "Just the normal things for me ... but, till now, I haven't seen Jo Ann in 4 days."
A not-so-subtle hint ... I had been feeding a our first set of quads ... every hour on the hour around the clock for 4 days and nights ... napping in a computer chair beside the chin's cage.
Totally ignoring my husband ... :oops: It's easy to do without realizing it.
::howdythere::
Jo Ann
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Aww Jacqui, I'm so glad the you little chin is doing better.
I have never heard of a chin with worms before :-\
I know the cut will heal, and hope your son with the problem lets you in on what's causing his behavior.
Maybe his guidance councilor can help?
Seems us Moms/females always have a full plate.
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::silly::I talked to Lani (California Chins) the other day about the different things that have been showing up in chinchillas since they are becoming more and more popular in the pet world and they are being exposed to so much more. She said they are finding out more and more the chins are susceptible to almost everything other domesticated animals can get. ???
:-\ As if we didn't have enough to worry about with them. ::) Keeping this in mind, also keep in mind that they hide their illnesses better and can "go down" (die) much faster than most of the other pets we may have.
They can get the same worms that the cats and dogs get ... sooooo ... if you bring a new puppy or kitten into your home ... remember, they often need to be d-wormed. Do so immediately and until you are sure they are completely gone ... do not let your chins play in the same areas as your other pets.
If your other animals play or go outside, remember that they can pick up things (germs, viruses, parasites) out there and bring them inside with them.
Hookworms are one of the worst and are usually treated with panacur. Panacur kills the worms, but, to many times the dead worms stay inside and can set up septicemia (sp). This is often treated with an antibiotic.
Andibiotics do NOT know the difference between the good bacteria (the one that digest the chins food) and the bad bacteria (the ones that can kill) ... so it (the antibiotic) kills all bacteria, good and bad.
It is extremely important to keep the system moving and replenish it with good bacteria that is used to digest the food and process wastes (IE those dead worms) out of the body. For this ... critical care (homemade or from your vet) /yogurt (most grocery stores) /"Superfood Wheatgrass" (healthfood store - mix with baby bananas or baby applesauce)/ "Odwalla Drink" (healthfood store)/ pidealyte, for re-hydrating (most grocery stores)--- ALL of these MUST be refrigerated after opening!
IMPORTANT: Those things being used to replace the good bacteria must be used at least 3 hours before OR after the antibiotic is given. If you give them to close together, they will cancel each other out, as if you are doing nothing for your little chin.
::wave::
Jo Ann
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And both what Lani and Jo Ann said is extremely true. He had hookworms, and was on the Panacur, and those worms almost killed him. I took him to the vet when he was diagnosed, and then he didn't seem to get better so I took him BACK to the vet a second time and he was pretty badly dehydrated, wouldn't respond to the food they were giving him (didn't want to swallow), they gave him SQ fluids, and he didn't even perk up from that. His body temperature was only 94degrees, which is from him not having enough food in him to produce the metabolisim (sp?) to maintain it. And that was from not eating enough, it was a downward spiral. At that point they put him under heat lights and FORCED him (even though he didn't want to swallow it) to eat, and he as in there under supportive care for about 2 hours, when they called me in and told me that I really needed to realize where this was going. He was doing terrible, and he had about a 40% chance of making it through. She said he was just dying, and if he didn't turn around in 24 hours after all this treatment then I really neeeded to think about if I was just prolonging the inevitable. You know your chinny is not doing well when he just layes there on the table - not wanting to run away, not wanting to hop, nothing. Just lying there.
Well it was at that point that I called Jo Ann AGAIN (lol) and she talked to Lani about it. Basically she told me not to give up, that since he was still eating he hadn't given up either. And she was right! He kept going and kept eating, and taking his medicines like he was supposed to, and by some God sent miracle, he pulled through. He's still a little lighter then before all this started, but he has pretty much made a full comeback.
It went like this from the night before I took him to the vet the first time, and ya know why I thought something was wrong? He wouldn't take a raisin. Can you imagine if I would have waited for him to look sick? I would have been wayyyyyyyyyyyy to late.
So - I guess its just a long story with a short point - Anytime you think something's wrong, GO WITH YOUR GUT! :)
Jacqui
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GO WITH YOUR GUT!
Aways the best advice! ::thumbsup::