Chinchilla Community Forums
Breeders => General Breeder Chat => Topic started by: Almighty Chinchillas on August 18, 2009, 07:48:31 PM
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Hi I Had a breeding pair come thru the rescue, and they had several stillborns upon their arrival. We determined they both carried the TOV gene. For their health we split them apart. The male did fine, but the female didn't. I put a neutered male in w/her to perk her up, and it worked. She started eating again. I never c them fight, infact they are always snuggled up together. My question is.....Y does she pee on him? He is a mosaic, so I can c all the yellow pee on him. Ne ideas? Also how do I get the pee off w/out giving him a bath? Thanx
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::silly:: Several things going on here ...
Had a breeding pair come thru the rescue, and they had several stillborns upon their arrival.
The move itself and/or the care (or lack of it) is probably what caused the stillborn kits.
We determined they both carried the TOV gene.
Did you have the family history on them?
Also, you have to contend with the lethal factor when putting two TOV together and when putting whites together. "Lethal factor" does not mean stillborn kits, it means approximately 1/4 of the eggs will not be fertilized that probably would have otherwise, making for smaller litters ... not dead litters.
I put a neutered male in w/her to perk her up, and it worked. She started eating again. I never c them fight, infact they are always snuggled up together. My question is.....Y does she pee on him? He is a mosaic, so I can c all the yellow pee on him.
Females tend to spray on males as a way of saying "I will not breed with you now." OR As self defense. OR As a way to show they are not happy with whatever is going on. My thoughts ... and I am only guessing on this one ... is that she is going in season and 'expects' him to try to breed when he gets close to her and she is telling him to go away. OR He may be trying to hump her as a show of dominance and she's the one that wants to be the dominate one. ::think:: Both chins may have dominant tendances ... if this is true, it might be best just to separate them.
Also how do I get the pee off w/out giving him a bath?
Separate them and let him have lots of dust baths is one way ... it will take a little longer, but is worth it. OR A bath is possible by using warm water only ... drying with paper towels (paper absorbs faster and better than cloth) and use a hair dryer on air or very low heat and low air, about 12 to 18 inches away from him ... moving in a back and forth motion constantly ... until he is completely dry and you feel no moisture in his fur at all before putting him in his cage. A chinchilla can chill and become ill or die of a heat stroke, so, this is not advised under normal circumstances.
I have heard of people using baby wipes, but I do not advise this due to the fact most are sented and/or contain an oil or lotion in them, which will only complicate the matter.
::wave:: Jo Ann
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Hi Jo Ann.....sorry for the confusion:
I had 2 "males" come into the rescue. 5 min. from the owner bringing them to the rescue the mom had a still born in the car. Upon later email the owner confessed they were a breeding pair (not 2 males) that have had several stillborn litters. So we decided to separate them, because they both has a TOV gene( vet confirmed it). The boy did great but the girl got extremely depressed, so it was then I put in a much younger neutered male. She started eating again, and they really do well other than the peeing thing. Does this give u a better history for advice on the peeing? Thanx
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::silly:: With this, I understand much better.
Again, there could have been several reasons/things going on that could have caused the stillborn litters.
1. Backbreeding. When this happens, the mom and all kits suffer because there is just not enough nutrition to go around.
2. Lack of a good environment.
3. Lack of a quality food.
4. Constant handling of the female while she is pregnant.
5. Mishandling or abuse.
6. The "chemistry"/DNA between the two just does not produce healthy kits. What you normally get when putting two high quality chins together is high quality kits, but, on occasion, you will put the wrong two together and get very low quality kits.
7. The momma chin just may not be able to carry kits to full term, for physical reasons.
8. The male may have some messed up genes.
9. The female could have been put into breeding to early and in the process of the birth of the first litter could have caused damage to the reproduction organs or birth canal.
Did the woman say the pair had any healthy litters, or were all litters stillborn?
How many litters had this pair produced all together?
Having been allowed to have "several" stillborn litters was the first mistake.
I will usually give a pair a 'second chance' on having a healthy litter before separating them (there could have been an accident that could have caused it the first time).
If the pair have a second litter that is stillborn, I separate them and place each with new partners after they have had a good break from breeding (at least 6 months to a year for the female ... my personal choice).
I then place each with proven breeders that have produced healthy litters in the past.
I keep a close eye on the litters born to the two new pairs. Should either original partner produce a stillborn litter, the partner doing so will be taken out of breeding forever.
You have to remember, the kits come from a combination of two parents ... to often breeders want to blame it on the female alone.
As for the peeing situation ... this female has been through a very stressful time, probably more than you know, and needs allot of one-on-one time from you. She could be doing this out of anger, fear, frustration, depression, or again ... the claim for dominance. If you are not seeing this actually happening, then they are acting differently when no one is around as apposed to when someone is watching. This is 'change in attitude' when no one is watching is not uncommon.
You could just wait and see if things get better, or, separate them and place another chin in with the female. Above all, this should be done with time, caution and patients.
This little one has been through some very rough times ... she has had multiple stillborn litters and the loss of her partner. Chinchillas have the complete full array of all the human emotions we have. If , in the long run, she can not be paired with another cagemate, she needs to be where the human caring for her has lots of time and love to give to her alone. (My opinion and experience over the years.)
I had one chin that was given to me under similar circumstances ... I never put her into breeding because I had no background on her and figured she had already been through enough already ... as it turned out ... she became one of my best foster moms to kits that needed her special love. They gave her love in return for the love she had to give. She is still with me.
I hope this gave you some options not thought of before ... that's why we are all here ... to help eachother help all chinchillas. :)
::wave:: Jo Ann
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You could also try a wet wipe to get the pee off. ::nod::