Is this still a brown Velvet?

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Got this kit that kind looks brown velvet but is so much lighter than the others, and getting lighter as she ages.She has the darker face and paw stripes, born to a br.velvet dame and hetero sire,on Dec.23/05,but not much of a hood.
On her pedigree should I still class her as a br. velvet or would a beige mosaic with tov be better??

She is so much lighter than the kit below her, who was born Feb12/06.

[Jo Ann]

Hi Debbie,

   I have always been told if the stripes are on the paws, it's a velvet/TOV.

   But, I have seen brown velvets take up to 9 months to a year to show their true pattern.

   It's hard to say what to classify it as.  With a TOV parent, at the least it is a TOV carrier and at best a brown velvet.  You may have to just wait till it is older to tell which way you feel more comfortable with.

 
Jo Ann [/i]

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Thanks Jo Anne,
I think she is one of those needing a little more understanding
and yes maybe time.
It's awkward when showing her along side of the other good colored Br. Velvets, then trying to explain.
She's a nice big girl with good shape, but does go to show how important the standard line is in getting good colors.

[chinclub]

From the picture I would say she is a brown velvet.  She may just have poor veiling.   With both parents being beige/brown velvet its possible that your chinchilla could be homozygous for the beige gene.  That would explain the lighter color.  You can sometimes tell by the lighter eyes with the blue ring.  You'll know for sure if you breed it as every baby would carry beige...(ie beige, brown velvet, etc...)

[Jo Ann]

Hi Debbie!

   I can finally see the picture!!! (long story)

   I think she is beautiful,     just needs a little darker vieling ... if she doesn't get it, maybe she can produce it.  I would put her with an ebony or very dark standard.   

   Bet she has a great personality!

 
Jo Ann [/i]

[Asikovsek]

I have 2 standard greys my male named Bernie is about 3 years old and my new female is a little over 5 months she is already to the breeding weight so by the time she hits 8 months she should be fine for breeding. Both of my chinchillas are pretty big even for her only being 5 months and Bernie he is show quality big around 8 - 9 g.  Do you think I am going to have any problems breeding 2 standards they will be both new at this and when I bought Bell I made sure she was the largest of her litter, because the stories about breeding small chinchillas and birth is something I never want to experience. I have read a lot about breeding and have talked a lot with the breeder I got Bell from but I really haven't found information on what breeds should be bred to better the chinchillas birth.  So I guess basically I am asking if it is safe to breed two standards they are in no way related to eachother and are in great shape?

[Jo Ann]

Hi Asikovsek,

... my new female is a little over 5 months she is already to the breeding weight so by the time she hits 8 months she should be fine for breeding. Both of my chinchillas are pretty big even for her only being 5 months and Bernie he is show quality big around 8 - 9 g.

Different breeders will tell you different things, but ... personally I will not put a female in breeding until she is a year old.   It is important to have her at a nice weight, but... "big enough" to deliver a kit is not referring to the weight of the female chinchilla ... it is referring to the size of the birth canal ... to be 'big enough' she needs to be fully matured, so that the kits can pass through the canal safely.

Having two or more pairs of good standard grays in breeding together is very important to your herd.  The base/original color of all chinchillas is gray.  The gray (standard gray) is the one that carries the purest/strongest genes (usually) for all the basics in a chinchilla ... fur quality, bone structure, vital organs, size and many more things. 

When you have mutations (any color other than the original standard gray), it should be bred back to a good healthy standard gray every 2 or 3 generations.  If not, it can produce weaker, smaller, less healthy kits ... with each generation being worse than the one before.

Mixing different colors/mutations can be disastrous if you do not know what you are doing.  Never, never, never breed a multipal mutation with a different mutation or another multipal mutation containing even one different color.  By using the term multiple mutation, I mean a chinchilla carrying more than one of the accepted 6 mutation colors.
 Such as: if you have a white/ebony, you are safest to breed it to a standard gray or an ebony (these are all the colors the white/ebony chin is already carrying). 

I have heard the remark, "I want to breed as many different colors as I can, with the chins I have"  ... and this person had a beige, a violet, an ebony, a pink white and a white mosaic.  WRONG   You want to breed to keep the true colors ... not produce a drab off shade of who knows what.   Anyone can be a breeder ... but ... if you want to be a good breeder ... you breed only to improve what you already have.

So I guess basically I am asking if it is safe to breed two standards they are in no way related to eachother and are in great shape?

Most definitely, but, keep in mind, a chin can look perfectly healthy, yet be carrying a gene that will produce small kits, heart murmurs, malocclusion, cataracts, diabetes, etc.  Make sure you know about the family/health background of your chinchilla before you put it into breeding.

but I really haven't found information on what breeds should be bred to better the chinchillas birth.

   
If you are saying to have a better kit ... you want the chin that will be the strongest, healthiest, color compatible chinchilla you can afford to mate with another with the same attributes. 

When in doubt, get the best standard gray you can get and breed your chin to it.

I know this will be ask, so I might as well list it:

Standard Gray ... the base color for all chinchillas

The Accepted mutation colors are: 
 (*Accepted meaning recognized by the MCBA and Empress)
White (pink white and white mosaic)
Beige (varying shades of beige from dark to cream ~ also includes tan)
Black (a Black Velvet) (TOV)  (TOV is a pattern)
Ebony (is not considered a "black", only a Black Velvet is a "Black")
Violet (gray with a blue hue)
Sapphire (gray with a purple hue)

Any other colors are mixtures of those above.

 
Jo Ann

[Asikovsek]

Well I know that Bernie parents and grandparents were all standard chinchillas in great health and the breeder I got Bell  "she is also a standard" from is a member of the breeder club on here and gave me a very detailed list or should I say family tree. I was very careful in buying my chins I planned on breeding because of the fact that they are very sensitive. And I am New to the breeding of them. I don't plan on having a "big" herd of chinchillas and If I do end up with babies they will be from bernie and bell. I don't think I could handle the risks of mutating breeds. I love my two standard grays and if they decide to have babies I will take them on. I am a college student and I Devote a lot of my free time to them...and being a college student I won't want to take on that many chinchillas to be a full herd breeder. They require a lot of equal attention and I would never want to feel like I was depriving them of that. Maybe in the future when I learn a lot more about mutations and colors I would like to be a breeder but until then..lol...It me and my 2 chins and if they bring babies into this world.. ...thank you for your help I am very glad that I have standards though the other colors are darling I feel that standards are more easy going chinchillas...I have some pictures of all my animals in the CHINCHILLAS forum I started if anyone would like to see

[Jo Ann]

Standard Gray is the original color of all chinchillas.  A good pure line of standard gray chinchillas is the base/foundation for a good herd! 

 
Jo Ann

[Asikovsek]

 .....yes and they seem to me to be less sensitive to things that colors seem to be more sensitive to....I don't know I just have always loved the standard chins....

[Chins To Love]

I love all of my colors, but standard will always be the prettiest, I think.

[Debbie.nl.ca]

to be less sensitive to things that colors seem

How? Have never heard that before.What should I be watching out for in the colors?

I used to think some of my colors were smaller, but it all depends on who I put them with.
I do have grays on the smaller side now too, and my biggest is a tov homo beige, so I had to foreget that theory.

[ThreeLilChins]

We have a Brown Velvet female. She gets darker everyday. We haven't put her in breeding yet. We are waiting for her color hue and veiling and over all conformation to reach best. The breeder we got her from told us it could be up to 18 months before we color has came all the way in. We do the same for our black velvets, only we wait about 15 months.

[ElmChinchillas]

A brown velvet, even one with light colour veiling will clearly have dark "paw spats" (cuffs!) on it's front paws.

Violet (gray with a blue hue)
Sapphire (gray with a purple hue)

Shouldn't that be the other way around? 

.....yes and they seem to me to be less sensitive to things that colors seem to be more sensitive to....

I think I know what you mean:
e.g. like the mutation colours can have weaker fur than the standard greys especially when it comes to recessive colours like violet and sapphire,
or
when 2 like-colours are paired together e.g. dark ebony to dark ebony are paired together like that together over generations to maximise the number of dark ebonies produced without the strengths of a fantastic looking standard to boost them now and again - the offspring generally end up getting more and more fluffy and a lot smaller than the original founding pair, which is the problem we have ended up with, with a lot of them in the UK. 

Some people say that some of the mutation coloured chins are more Susceptible to becoming ill than the standard greys, but mine have all been a pretty healthy bunch so far (touch wood!).
 
I think the grey ones can be very pretty.  I bugs me when people say they don't like the grey ones because they think they look boring!

^{* Edited 'cause I can't spell, lol. *}

[Jo Ann]

Quote
Violet (gray with a blue hue)
Sapphire (gray with a purple hue)
Shouldn't that be the other way around? 

  Yep, I should have checked back over what I wrote ... sorry about that!   

 
Jo Ann