Pain or mating?

[AnnieHank]

My male has been making some horrid squealing noises on and off for a few hours and I don't know if he's hurt or if it's a mating thing. He had been in the girls cage (minus the girls of course) so he could play in the wheel but I caught him running on top of the wheel at one point so I don't know if he might have fallen off and hurt himself when I was out of the room or if he got a smell of them and just really wants to be with them now. I put him back in his own cage and he seems completely fine now apart from the odd squeal. He's eating and drinking, still curious and very active and pooing normally. He was wagging his tail and making mating noises at the girls so maybe the squealing is a mating thing? Perhaps one of them is in heat??

Vet opens in an hour so I'm considering cancelling my appointments for the day and bringing him in just in case. I can't really afford it but if he needs it I'd find the money. The only other times I've heard this squealing is when he fell off a shelf in the bathroom and landed on his back a few months ago (he was completely fine afterwards) and also, from a kit that got his head caught in the cage wires last year (he was also completely fine after I freed him).

[dianah]

if it's a noise you recognise from previous painful occasions, i'd take him as it's been a few hours. mine usually don't make noise when in pain but you have different experience from me. if he had fallen, it's very easy to break a rib etc. maybe give the vet a ring and see what they think?

[AnnieHank]

He seems fine now, just hell bent on mating behaviour. Lots of tail swishing and mating noises at the girls. I guess it's his generic distress call. I'm looking forward to getting the operation over with and reintroducing him to the girls.

[Debbie.nl.ca]

Oh they can make some noises when they want a female  And you should hear the call after they have mated. They brag you know .

[AnnieHank]

Yeah, I heard it a few years ago after Hank and Annie mated. Very funny behaviour!!

[AnnieHank]

Okay, I know the noise is related to mating but I'm wondering is it possible that not being with the girls could be causing him actual pain?

When I started this thread two weeks ago, Buddy was making horrible squealing noises that I've only heard in times of pain. Annie was sniffing at him through her cage bars and he was going mad trying to get in to her. He was fine the next day and has been for two weeks.

Tonight, I let the girls out in the hall for play and Pixie did a wee on the carpet. She does this every few weeks and Buddy usually goes mental bouncing around and making little mating squeaks if he smells it so I guess she does that when she's in heat??

Tonight, I let him out in the hall after the girls and forgot to clear up the pee first. Once he smelled it, he ran around making these pain squeaking noises. He was wagging his tail and making the mating squeaks too. I've checked him for hair rings and there doesn't seem to be one. Once I put him back in his cage, he stopped making the squeaking noises.

He's eating and drinking loads, behaving as his usual curious self and putting on a gram or so of weight every few weeks (as I hope is normal for a nine month old chinchilla?).

I'm booking him in for his operation in the new year and I'm terrified but it's not nice to see him distressed and I think it's be so cruel to let him live his life like that.

[Jo Ann]

 

Okay, I know the noise is related to mating but I'm wondering is it possible that not being with the girls could be causing him actual pain?

No, just frustrated.      He'll get over it.  

When I started this thread two weeks ago, Buddy was making horrible squealing noises that I've only heard in times of pain. Annie was sniffing at him through her cage bars and he was going mad trying to get in to her. He was fine the next day and has been for two weeks.

When this happens, I would move him to another room.  BTW  How close are the cages?

Tonight, I let the girls out in the hall for play and Pixie did a wee on the carpet. She does this every few weeks and Buddy usually goes mental bouncing around and making little mating squeaks if he smells it so I guess she does that when she's in heat??

 Probably.  
*Do you know how to tell if one of the girls are in season?*

Tonight, I let him out in the hall after the girls and forgot to clear up the pee first. Once he smelled it, he ran around making these pain squeaking noises. He was wagging his tail and making the mating squeaks too. I've checked him for hair rings and there doesn't seem to be one. Once I put him back in his cage, he stopped making the squeaking noises.

 The hopping and swishing of the tail is call the "Swish-swish Tail Dance".  This is a way of courting the female.  He will do a hop hop swish-swish and get this silly little grin on his face.  Males do this from the time a female starts into season until she lets him mate or she goes out of season ... which ever comes first.  Punkin, one of our dark tan chins, would do this anytime a female in any of the cages would be in season, we had over 140 females at that time ... Needless to say, the exorcise did not hurt him and he loved to show off for all the females, even if he could not get to them.  

I'm booking him in for his operation in the new year and I'm terrified but it's not nice to see him distressed and I think it's be so cruel to let him live his life like that.

If his operation is to neuter him, I would be terrified, too.  Chinchillas are very small and are not made exactly like other animals ... neutering is much more invasive for the male chinchilla.  Chinchillas do not respond well to surgery of any kind.  I will not let one of my chins be operated on unless it is a matter of life and death.  There are a few ... very few ... exotic vets that are well practiced in this area for male chinchillas.

To better understand  some of the sounds, you might want to check out this site ... it's one of the best I've ever been able to find. http://www.chinchilla-sounds.de/index_en.htm

Hope this helps!

Jo Ann

*ADDED:  If you notice in the two pictures of the female privates below.  In the one that says in season it shows slight swelling and a dot of red blood.  This female is in full season.  Also, females will tend to clean themselves more often when they are in season. 

[AnnieHank]

How close are the cages?

The cages are about 6 inches or so apart.

Do you know how to tell if one of the girls are in season?

I couldn't tell from looking if the girls are in season, I just presume when Buddy goes mad for mating calls that one of them is in season.

The hopping and swishing of the tail is call the "Swish-swish Tail Dance".  This is a way of courting the female.  He will do a hop hop swish-swish and get this silly little grin on his face.  Males do this from the time a female starts into season until she lets him mate or she goes out of season ... which ever comes first.  Punkin, one of our dark tan chins, would do this anytime a female in any of the cages would be in season, we had over 140 females at that time ... Needless to say, the exorcise did not hurt him and he loved to show off for all the females, even if he could not get to them.  

cute!

If his operation is to neuter him, I would be terrified, too.  Chinchillas are very small and are not made exactly like other animals ... neutering is much more invasive for the male chinchilla.  Chinchillas do not respond well to surgery of any kind.  I will not let one of my chins be operated on unless it is a matter of life and death.  There are a few ... very few ... exotic vets that are well practiced in this area for male chinchillas.

I had his daddy neutered back in April and the operation went okay but he wouldn't eat on his own after. We had a different vet at the same surgery for the after care and she told us to give him lots of raisins. She also refused to give him any pain medication or antibiotics and didn't seem too bothered that he still wasn't eating or pooing properly a week after the operation. A few days later, he went downhill rapidly and we got him to an emergency vet but he passed away in the night. I'm still not right about the whole thing but I've researched the operation aftercare and Buddy's a lot younger so he shouldn't have the stomach complications that Hank did. The vet that did the operation is competent and I trust her so I'd be happy to have her do the operation again but I've found another vet closer that specialisis in exotics that I'm going to bring him to for the aftercare. I'm paying the money and I know so much more now so I will be far more insistent on the way I want him treated.


Hope this helps!

Thanks for your help!

[Debbie.nl.ca]

The chins that my vet has neutered did very well and needed very little post op care. A couple I know personally. I'd never have it done though on any of my boys.I agree with Jo Ann, and unless it was an emergency they'd never be put under a general. And I have had several whom had to have operations with out any problems.
If you've already lost one from surgical complications I'm surprised you'd take the chance again. Are you realllly going to risk it?
Why not just keep him in his own cage?

Oh 6 inches is just teasing him ,  the poor boy must be going out of his mind when the girls go in heat. I know, I have one that is close to a cage of females and when they go in heat he dribbles pee all over his shelves, gets real chatty and even more affectionate towards me.They talk to each other and I'm sure the girls get a kick out of teasing him because the only time they even notice each other is during heats. I put up a fleece blanket between them now and it seems to have done the trick.
Yes there is a very good reason I haven't moved his cage, just long and dragged out.

When you notice him acting up just look at the girls vaginal area, it should be open as in Jo Ann's pic. Some leave a white discharge and or heat plug too.

[Jo Ann]

  

I'm still not right about the whole thing but I've researched the operation aftercare and Buddy's a lot younger so he shouldn't have the stomach complications that Hank did.

Age usually has nothing to do with digestive/stomach complications due to after care surgery ... IE antibiotics.  Antibiotics kill germs, even the good ones. The antibiotic can not distinguish the difference between the good ones and the bad ones, so it kills them all.   The good ones, called flora, help to properly digest your chinchilla's food.  If the food is not properly digested, it can and ususally will, cause a blockage sooner or later, unfortunately it's usually sooner.  What feces that do make it through are usually greenish in color ... this is a definite sign he's in trouble because he is not able to properly digest his food, regardless of his age.  When the feces/poop becomes fewer in number, smaller in size and/or dryer, your chinchilla is in big  trouble.

When taking an antibiotic, the probiotic needs to be given half way between doses of the antibiotic.  At least 4 hours apart.  The antibiotic needs time to do it's job and so does the flora, if given at the same time, it's as if you are trading one problem for another that may be even worse than the original problem.  A chinchilla's digestive system can not be stopped or slowed for more than a day, or there will usually be more problems instore for you and your chin.

A diet of hay and water is usually a good thing when a chin is sick or going into or coming out of surgery.  It is a less complicated diet and supplies everything your little one will need (food-wise) while it is getting better.   I usually give mine a mix of Timothy and Alfalfa hay during this time ... it's done grate for over 20 years for my little ones.  This is in my opinion and in my vet's opinion.

If, for some reason, your little one does become impacted, try giving your little one an almond ... if after an hour it has not worked, offer him a second one.  At no other time do I reccommend a nut of any kind, their systems are not made to digest the oils in nuts, but with a choice of possible death as apposed to giving them an almond or two ... only under these circumstances  ... is acceptable to me.

If you do decide to neuter your little one, please ask your vet to check on line first ... there are sites that are open to vets only ... here they share the problems and possibilities they have experienced and what they did to correct it, if necessary.  Never hurts to ask or make that request of your vet.  If he/she is interested in the health of your chinchilla, they should not have a problem conferring with other vets.  California Chins (www.cachins.org) is one place that does this on a regular basis.


Please keep us posted on him.

   Jo Ann

[AnnieHank]

Thanks for the advice folks.
Are you sure that age has nothing to do with digestive peoblems after surgery? Because my vet told me the anesthetic would be harder on an older chin, esp. his tummy and that's exactly what went wrong with him.
Apart from a single shot of antibiotic, she wouldn't give me antibiotics for him and she said he didn't need painkillers. I'm not sure she's right about that and I'm going to insist she give them to me, just to have on hand.
Where do I get probiotics from? He's not going for the operation for a few weeks but I'd like to have the probiotics on hand. I already have life line and dyne on hand and critical care. Is there anything else I should get?

[dianah]

lifeline is all the probiotics you need (you can get stuff in sachets from the vets, it's for rabbits and from my experience they don't work that well and are not as palatable - lifeline tastes really good!). spock and ffynn were on baytril and septrin and their poo didn't change at all with lifeline. mae, the rescue girl who has to be on antibiotics every so often responds very well to this too. i would ask for post op course of antibiotics rather than just to have antibiotics on hand, this may stop any infection from developing, by the time you notice there's something wrong, it may take longer to get things right.